Snow and Backsliding

[Hitokage]

Thank you for all that all of you do. I have something that occurred last year and ever since I've been wondering 'what could have' about it and just thought recently to come ask!

My home lies in a small sector of houses that, to reach, you have no option but going up a hill. Both streets are very steep hills, and the snow plowing in the area is... terrible, to say the least.

The hill that I normally turn up to go home is, let's say, K street. It is one of the only two major intersections in this tiny town and thus actually has a traffic light. It has our Main street going east-west and K street is north-south. Going north up K street is the hill, and you have to make a left hand turn to do it.

Last year, we had a terrible snow storm. 6 inches in 3 hours bad. They sent us home early from work and it was obvious that there was absolutely no plowing going on yet -- it was actually 6 inches in the roads the further away from the highway I got.

I stopped at the intersection of Main and K and watched someone make the left going up the hill. They were obviously having trouble and almost slid back down the hill. I patiently was waiting for them to make it up before I went. Some jerk (the light was green) decided I was waiting too long and went around me, going up the hill, where they preceded to slide as well. I waited for them to go as well, and was getting beeped at by the person behind me.

I finally saw it was all clear to go, and made the turn. Sure enough, about half way up the hill... my car refused to go any further. It just would not go forward. Unfortunately... the person who had been beeping at me had decided to make the turn. I started to slide backwards and was internally fearing I was going to hit them.

Luckily, it was averted. Some nice guy got out of his car and helped push me up the hill.

So with all that out of the way - what would have happened if I had slid backwards and hit the guy who had come up behind me (my tail end to his front end)? Would it have been my fault? His fault? Both? I had waited until the hill was clear before going, and he came up right behind me without making sure I was clear of the hill.

Thank you kindly!

[greg72982]

Thank you for all that all of you do. I have something that occurred last year and ever since I've been wondering 'what could have' about it and just thought recently to come ask!

My home lies in a small sector of houses that, to reach, you have no option but going up a hill. Both streets are very steep hills, and the snow plowing in the area is... terrible, to say the least.

The hill that I normally turn up to go home is, let's say, K street. It is one of the only two major intersections in this tiny town and thus actually has a traffic light. It has our Main street going east-west and K street is north-south. Going north up K street is the hill, and you have to make a left hand turn to do it.

Last year, we had a terrible snow storm. 6 inches in 3 hours bad. They sent us home early from work and it was obvious that there was absolutely no plowing going on yet -- it was actually 6 inches in the roads the further away from the highway I got.

I stopped at the intersection of Main and K and watched someone make the left going up the hill. They were obviously having trouble and almost slid back down the hill. I patiently was waiting for them to make it up before I went. Some jerk (the light was green) decided I was waiting too long and went around me, going up the hill, where they preceded to slide as well. I waited for them to go as well, and was getting beeped at by the person behind me.

I finally saw it was all clear to go, and made the turn. Sure enough, about half way up the hill... my car refused to go any further. It just would not go forward. Unfortunately... the person who had been beeping at me had decided to make the turn. I started to slide backwards and was internally fearing I was going to hit them.

Luckily, it was averted. Some nice guy got out of his car and helped push me up the hill.

So with all that out of the way - what would have happened if I had slid backwards and hit the guy who had come up behind me (my tail end to his front end)? Would it have been my fault? His fault? Both? I had waited until the hill was clear before going, and he came up right behind me without making sure I was clear of the hill.

Thank you kindly!

At least in PA, "fault" is only an insurance company term, the police do not determine that. We do determine if there is any traffic violations though.

I will tap into my insurance skills here and say that when there adverse weather conditions no one is usually considered at fault. It's considered an act of nature, just like hitting a deer.

Typically the person at fault is the one who committed a traffic violation or violations. Based on your story there are none here, just sudden weather conditions that you can't control.

[Creeker]

When I used to live in snow-land with hills, it wasn't unheard of to park and walk if you were within a reasonable distance of home... "reasonable" being a relative term, which is much shorter now than it used to be.

[Hitokage]

Learned a bunch already!

As to the get out and walk comment, unfortunately there is no where to actually park. The street's solid homes on either side. Trust me, I'd rather walk it then drive it.

I've already been hit there by some idiot going too fast down the hill in the snow (hit me from behind while I was at the light waiting for it to change).

[Creeker]

Learned a bunch already!

As to the get out and walk comment, unfortunately there is no where to actually park. The street's solid homes on either side. Trust me, I'd rather walk it then drive it.

....

Maybe its time to meet a neighbor?

I would think in times of snow, people living along there might be willing to allow you to park your car out front for the duration of the urgency until the plows do the work.

I know I'd be understanding.

[Curt581]

So with all that out of the way - what would have happened if I had slid backwards and hit the guy who had come up behind me (my tail end to his front end)? Would it have been my fault? His fault? Both?

In my state, the police do not assign 'fault' per-se. However, you would be listed on my report as the striking vehicle, or Unit #1. It doesn't matter which portion of your vehicle made first contact, nor does it matter which direction your car was facing or moving at the time.

There are spaces on the back page of the State accident report to list Contributing Factors in three categories... Driver, Vehicle, and Roadway for each Unit. Driver factors would be... too fast for conditions, speeding, impaired, failure to maintain control etc. Vehicle factors would be bad tires, bad brakes, suspension or steering failure, etc. Roadway factors could include snow, rain, debris, road damage, etc.

I can tell you that an officer citing vehicle or roadway factors is relatively rare. Mechanical failures which result in collisions do happen, but are very infrequent. Even in the event of mechanical failure, an insurance company would have an adjuster look to see if the failure was due to negligence... ie, bald tires, metal-on-metal brakes, etc.

As for roadway factors, barring obvious stuff like 10ft wide sinkholes, you have to look at the larger picture. For example, Yeah, the road is snow covered, but 1000 cars have passed through here in the last few hours, and they were able to drive through it without hitting anything... why weren't you? On the other hand, if 10 cars tried to make it through, and every one of them slid off the road, then yeah... roadway factor.

The insurance company will look at the totality of the circumstances in determining fault. Of course, the police report (including contributing factors) will have great influence on their decision. In the case of your insurance vs the other driver's insurance, one will call the other and come to some sort of agreement... which might be to your benefit, but it might not. If they can't reach an agreement, like in the case of a major accident, well... that's what civil court is for.

[Hitokage]

Curt, thank you very much for such a detailed message!

The road was very, very difficult to get up. I learned that later, teenagers had gone out to the hill and were making money by getting tips by helping to push people up the hill. It was completely snow covered, and there were not many cars on the road (considering the weather). It was about 1pm, and there were six inches on the road and no plows had gone through the area at all yet. My tires at the time were only a year old (studded snow tires) and the car had been inspected in October (it was January).

Thank you again. I was a little surprised - I figured that because he did not give me adequate distance to make sure I actually made it up the hill (the persons before me had visible extreme difficulty making the drive up the hill) that he would have been at fault. Quite an eye opener!