Really touchy subject

[flowerpower]

1. ABORTION, IT IS MURDER!
Why is it legal?
2. One of the thing that bugs me is that they say that it's legal because otherwise the mothers will die, because of illegal abortions. According to that we should legalize every crime.
3. If your child really a disease or disorder that will affect for life, shouldn't you just love him more. Instead you make him die a painful death, Sorry horror stories form Spanish not Religion class.
4. What does our government say to survivors of abortions? If there are survivors then what really is this?
My biggest problem is number 3.
P.S. not trying to push my beliefs on anyone, no offence meant.
Just trying to understand.

[wisco]

I am opposed to abortion except in 3 circumstances:

1) If the pregnancy/birth endangers the health of the mother
2) Rape
3) Incest involving minor children


It's legal because we live in a society full of left wingers and feminists screaming about "women's rights" and how it's "her body". I don't buy it. It takes two to tango, and if abortion must be legal I think BOTH parents should have a say in the life of the child.

I find it utterly disgusting that a drunk could crash into a pregnant woman who's on her way to an abortion clinic and kill the fetus, resulting in murder charges; whereas when it's the mother doing it it's treated as an elective medical procedure.

[mcsap]

My brothers wife was a complete non-smoker and had a healthy lifestyle.

She became pregnant at age 28. It was a normal pregnancy until about the 3 month mark when they discovered some sort of lymph node cancer. They offered her chemo which they said COULD save her life but WOULD harm the unborn child. She stedfastly REFUSED to do anything that would harm the baby , PERIOD.

Approx one month later she suddenly died and they did an emergenct C section when the little boy was about 4 months along. This was December of 1987.

They took him to the Hershey Medical Center ( Hershey , PA) for open heart surgery as his heart wasn't even fully developed. He was in neo-natal intensive care for months. My brother bought a small row home and than stayed home to care for him when he was released from the hospital for the first year.

I stopped by when he was about a week old and got video of him when he weighed 1 1/2 pounds , you could hold him in the palm of your hand easily.

MAKE SURE you have adequate life insurance on you and your spouse !!)

He subsequently remarried one of the nurses who cared for his first wife. They since had a daughter.

The little boy is now about 5ft 10 and 175 lbs. He is in the US Army and just got back from a year in Afghanistan. Other than a scar on his chest , you would never know.

I believe that once a life is created , the mother should not have the right to kill it. Sure, it's her body but it's NOT her life. While I can understand the issue of the pregnancy being dangerous to the life of the mother , creating a life ( even if unintentionally) does not give that person the right to end that life.

[flowerpower]

She is a saint. mcsap, and I am sorry for you loss

[wisco]

Amazing story mcsap.

[flowerpower]

"1) If the pregnancy/birth endangers the health of the mother"
The mother's health or her LIFE, big difference. Can't they still deliver the baby safely? If it endangers the life of the mother and child then an Abortion is necessary.
2) Rape
Ok, normally I could probably say something to that, but I am wondering what I would really do.
3) Incest involving minor children
I have no Idea what to say to that

[wisco]

"1) If the pregnancy/birth endangers the health of the mother"
The mother's health or her LIFE, big difference.

My emphasis added. That is what I meant by "health".

2) Rape
Ok, normally I could probably say something to that, but I am wondering what I would really do.

I look at it this way: I am a Christian. However some Christians might claim that everything is "God's plan". I don't buy that. God may know everything that is going to happen, but His greatest gift to mankind was free will. His "plan" was to create a paradise for all of us to live in, and that was effed up from the get-go by our progenitors ;)

Sooo... I don't think that it's God's plan that a woman be raped. I think it's the sinister side of man's free will. That being the case I don't think God would hold a person responsible for a life they never intended to create... and being that He is God, He will welcome that life regardless.

3) Incest involving minor children
I have no Idea what to say to that

Not sure if you mean you misunderstand what I'm saying, or if it's something you never considered. What I mean would be along the same lines of rape. An adult family member impregnates a young daughter/niece/whathaveyou in an incestuous environment. That child has already endured severe emotional trauma and is most likely not fit, neither mentally or physically, to bear and raise a child. Forcing that child to endure a full term pregnancy could be detrimental in my eyes.

On the flip side I wouldn't support abortion in an adult/adult incestuous situation - say for instance a brother and sister. I find it repulsive to say the least, BUT they knew what they were doing and the child should not suffer for that.

[flowerpower]

"I look at it this way: I am a Christian. However some Christians might claim that everything is "God's plan".
Well then you've heard of this "Before I formed you in your mother's womb I knew you." In other God has a plan for the the baby, even though the baby from unfortunate event. Also if the rapist gets the person pregnant, then there is three people included in this. You have the you is the victim, you the rapist, and you have the baby who SHOULD NOT pay for his father, the rapists, Crimes. Because how is it the babies fault that the baby was conceived. One question do you feel that the baby should pay with DEATH for the baby's fathers crime? If so how is that justice? Also I'm sure you've heard the Joseph and the coat of many colors story. God makes good things come from bad. God gave humans free will what we do with it is OUR choice not his.

[PathosLogos]

mscap--that's truly a sobering but at the same time miraculous story. Thank you for sharing.


I had to do research on fetal homicide this past week, and I ran into a lot of scholarly proposals on the subject of abortion. One of the articles cited an incident in which a pregnant woman was advised by her doctor to avoid amphetamines for the remainder of her pregnancy. She ignored the doctor's advice and continued to abuse drugs up until the day she was in labor. I can't remember if the baby was born a stillborn or what the case was--but charges were brought against her for fetal homicide. I believe the article said the judge dropped the charges, but the premise of the article was that fetal homicide should not be criminalized and instead better prenatal care and education for expecting mothers should be offered. Call me a cynic, but funding issues aside I don't see that as having much of a success rate. People are going to do what they want to do, regardless of "education." Furthermore, I didn't see that as a reason to abolish fetal homicide laws.

After reading a score of different scholarly articles on fetal homicide and abortion and trying (but probably, admittedly, failing) to remain unbiased, I saw a pattern of selfishness. The biggest claim I saw from leftist scholars was that fetal rights interefered with women's rights, therefore the fetus shouldn't retain rights at all. I felt appalled; I don't think I've ever seen such strong emotion, and from people who maintain to be scholars and supposedly not activists.

Not exactly an abortion topic, but it's been burning in my mind for a while. (In any case, I think my stance on abortion--at least insofar as pro-life versus pro-choice goes--is fairly obvious.)

[mobrien316]

I was always ambivalent about this issue until my wife got pregnant. She was pregnant with triplets and we were encouraged by the doctors to "selectively reduce" the number by killing one. I couldn't imagine doing so and neither could my wife.

Every time I look at our triplets now (they just turned four last month) I shudder when I think of which one wouldn't be here if we had gone along with "selective reduction."


My opinion nowadays is that, except in cases of rape or incest (where obviously the woman did not have a choice), there should not be abortions. If a woman doesn't want to have a baby she should not have sex. If she chooses to have sex she has no right whatsoever to murder the baby if she doesn't want to have it.

Just my two cents.

[flowerpower]

I will highlight my biggest point on rape cases. It is the rapist's crime! NOT the babies' crime. So why should the baby pay with death for crime that the sentence for the criminals is usually many years in prison in many cases. HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT JUSTICE? If you don't want the child put the baby up for adoption. Also abortion is not painless, it is torture. We treat animals better than we treat unborn babies.

[sparrow803]

I look at it this way...I'm damm glad my Mom was pro-life and didn't abort me. I've always been pro-life and always will be - I see conception itself as a miracle, it's not as easy as you might think for those "little fellas" to swim upstream.

People (some) are sick...they will fight like hell to save an endangered weed, but not think twice about throwing away a human life.

[Buford Pusser]

Interesting Case Studies

Would you consider abortion in any of the following four situations:


1. There’s a preacher and wife who are very, very poor. They already have fourteen children, and now she finds out she’s pregnant with the fifteenth. They’re living in tremendous poverty. Considering their poverty and the excessive world population, would you consider recommending an abortion?

2. The father is sick with a bad cold, the mother has tuberculosis (TB). They have four children. The first is blind, second is dead, third is deaf, fourth has TB. She finds that she’s pregnant again. Given their extreme situation, would you consider recommending an abortion?

3. A white man has raped a thirteen-year-old black girl, and she became pregnant. If you were her parents, would you consider recommending an abortion?

4. A teenage girl is pregnant. She’s not married. Her fiancé is not the father of the baby, and he’s concerned. Would you consider recommending an abortion?

If you said yes to the first case, you just killed John Wesley, one of the greatest evangelists of the nineteenth century. If you said yes to the second case, you killed Ludwig van Beethoven. If you said yes to the third case, you killed Ethel Waters, the black gospel singer who thrilled audiences for many years at Billy Graham Crusades around the world. And, if you said yes to the fourth case, you killed Jesus Christ.

[marinepilot]

I will highlight my biggest point on rape cases. It is the rapist's crime! NOT the babies' crime. So why should the baby pay with death for crime that the sentence for the criminals is usually many years in prison in many cases. HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT JUSTICE? If you don't want the child put the baby up for adoption. Also abortion is not painless, it is torture. We treat animals better than we treat unborn babies.

I believe abortion should be allowed in rape cases simply because I don't believe we have the right to sentence the victim of the rape, that is the MOTHER of the rape child, to a life time in a mental anguish prison, reliving the rape EVERY TIME SHE LOOKS AT HER CHILD! That, to me, is cruel and unusual punishment and is not allowed in our country. Therefore, should the woman not want that lifetime reminder of an incredibly traumatic experience, she should be allowed to legally receive an abortion. I know it's not the baby's crime, but if the mother hates looking at her child, how good a life do you believe both the mother and the child are going to have?

[Reconciler]

There are many people who will have to answer to God for their support in the MURDER of unborn/newly born babies. It is despicable...no wonder the moral fabric of this nation is unraveling.

People seem to make a big deal out of a woman's right to choose vs. the baby's right to life. In my mind that should be a non-issue. Women exercise their right of choice by choosing to have sex. Don't want to get pregnant...keep your pants on. Once a woman exercises her "freedom" it now becomes an issue of the baby's right to life.

I believe abortion should be allowed in rape cases simply because I don't believe we have the right to sentence the victim of the rape, that is the MOTHER of the rape child, to a life time in a mental anguish prison, reliving the rape EVERY TIME SHE LOOKS AT HER CHILD! That, to me, is cruel and unusual punishment and is not allowed in our country.

It seems everyone is in agreement that rape is an acceptable reason for an abortion. I am in no way trying to minimize the pain of a rape victim, but may I suggest an alternative. I agree Marinepilot....I believe it would be hard for a mother to raise the child without being overcome by the past. However, what about carrying the baby and then giving him/her up for adoption? Who knows what God may have planned for the mother and the baby.