Death Panels? Naaa...... you're all crazy

[wisco]

The child appears to not be as "vegetative" as the hospital is claiming.

EXCLUSIVE: Videos show ‘vegetable’ Baby Joseph reacting to parents | LifeSiteNews.com

[JoetheGI]

There are countries whose universal health care system is complemented by private insurance plans such as Australia and this seems to work by lessening the burden by spreading the cost around.

That's pretty much the way our current system works....kind of.

Medicare and medicaid are tax payer funded medical programs with specific eligibility requirements such as age or income. These programs pay for all, or part of a treatment depending on the circumstances.

Those that don't meet the eligibility criteria for any of the tax payer funded programs go with private insurance, if they can afford the cost. Some can't.

[MikeG]

The child appears to not be as "vegetative" as the hospital is claiming.

EXCLUSIVE: Videos show ‘vegetable’ Baby Joseph reacting to parents | LifeSiteNews.com

I read the prognosis. The baby has zero chance at life. The question for me is who decides? The parents should be able to decide in my mind. In Schiavo's case, I thought her husband should decide absent any malice.

I don't think the parents should be able to command the treatment though unless they are paying it themselves. No insurance company should be forced to pay for treatment that has zero chance of success (and that assessment should be made by doctors not employed by the paying party). If they want to bring their child home, the hospital should accomodate it. The insurance company (Canada in this case) is on the hook for best practice palliative care as directed by the parents. I think that's pretty common sense.

[retdetsgt]

I don't think the parents should be able to command the treatment though unless they are paying it themselves. No insurance company should be forced to pay for treatment that has zero chance of success (and that assessment should be made by doctors not employed by the paying party). If they want to bring their child home, the hospital should accomodate it. The insurance company (Canada in this case) is on the hook for best practice palliative care as directed by the parents. I think that's pretty common sense.

+1. There's a point where peoples' inability to grasp reality shouldn't cost the rest of us.

[oscarmitre]

The child appears to not be as "vegetative" as the hospital is claiming.

EXCLUSIVE: Videos show ‘vegetable’ Baby Joseph reacting to parents | LifeSiteNews.com

I think I've read about this phenomenon before. I seem to recall that the brain, even though its higher function areas are out of commission, can still cause the body to involuntarily move and, again apparently, so that it looks like the patient is consciously moving. It must be extremely difficult for a parent to see that and not believe the child can be saved.

[SANE-A30]

Why don't they just do a EEG on the baby it will show all of his brain activity and the true state of his " vegetative state"....?? Have they not thought of this?

Mike to answer your question earlier baby joseph has a ETTUBE in his nose the dr probably refused to put a trach in b/c he felt the child was a liability regarding the situation of the case if things gets harry doctors don't like to voluntary mingle into that eventaully he will need a Trach though....you can't have a ETTUBE forever b/c it can erode the patients esophagus causing internal bleeding I would suspect a pediatriac patient to be even more vulnerable to that.... honestly listening to the parents in the video THEY ARE IN COMPLETE DENIAL..... but the kid is awake too I was expecting him to be comatose.... A EEG would be very beneficial in this case.... then there would be facts in black and white , regardless if he is brain dead or not he is still a "life" to be considered... I am all about giving someone 110% but I hate to see unnessary suffering too. it's a fine line...

[MikeG]

Why don't they just do a EEG on the baby it will show all of his brain activity and the true state of his " vegetative state"....?? Have they not thought of this?

Mike to answer your question earlier baby joseph has a ETTUBE in his nose the dr probably refused to put a trach in b/c he felt the child was a liability regarding the situation of the case if things gets harry doctors don't like to voluntary mingle into that eventaully he will need a Trach though....you can't have a ETTUBE forever b/c it can erode the patients esophagus causing internal bleeding I would suspect a pediatriac patient to be even more vulnerable to that.... honestly listening to the parents in the video THEY ARE IN COMPLETE DENIAL..... but the kid is awake too I was expecting him to be comatose.... A EEG would be very beneficial in this case.... then there would be facts in black and white , regardless if he is brain dead or not he is still a "life" to be considered... I am all about giving someone 110% but I hate to see unnessary suffering too. it's a fine line...

It was in an earlier link. read this.

Judge orders baby off life-support - Canada - Canoe.ca

Their daughter died the same way when she was 18 months. They gave her a trach and she went home and died with the family. Doctors said they learnd "substantially" more since then about the trach and don't want to do it. Discomfort and infection were the reasons given and personally I don't think those are valid concers for someone in PVS. Their parents have been through this before. They apparently know he is terminal and have done it before. The outcome will be the same so I don't know why the hospital won't do the minimum necessary to let them take the baby home. They aren't asking for extraordinary care.

I get the impression that the Dr/hospital want the babies life to end quickly to prevent suffering. I understand that. I can even empathize with it but it needs to be the parents choice. They aren't asking for wastefule or needless heroic measures. The parents are also trying to be compassionate and I don't think either group has the moral highground. Therefore I defer to the parents. They aren't asking for miracle medical intervention or expensive and intensive but pointless therapies. They are asking for a routine procedure to allow the baby to die at home. In twenty years, that babies picture is going to be on the parents mantle, not the Drs and not the hospital administrators.

[SANE-A30]

this story has been so scrambled one article stated the family wanted to ship him to the states for * better* treatment...that is far from "lets take him home to die peacefully".......so which is it ?? and there is also a huge langauge barrier there as well I'm sure...... who really knows the true story... I'm guessing but I think the family wants to bring him home and its unrealistic you can't just ship a person home to live on a ventilator the hospital is liable to ensure the patient can receive the same adquate care whether they are at home or still in the hospital, the family has to go through extensive training...I do agree with what your saying but i don't buy the facts from the news media only b/c I have dealt with simliar situations in real life. Also to go home he would have to have a Trach not a ETTUBE... basically the doctors are saying option A is a no go b/c of these reasons...the child has no recovery period, though they have not said it I gurantee the parents could not safely take care of the infant therefore causing more harm then good.... that might sound cold and callous but taking someone home on life support/ feeding tubes Ivs is a lot more serious then most people care to realize....not saying I agree with the doctors but trying to understand a theory....
but then again they had another child in this same situation so I'm not sure ?



**** I also wanted to add my own child was on life support for about forty- five days, he was born three months early so he was already in the NICU one day he stopped breathing and had to be intubated, he stayed three months in the NICU, so I know kind of on a personal level how hard these decisions can be not to this extent of course but still, my son was supposed to be born with spinal Bifidia according to test and he is fine other then being short stature ( which we will be addressing in the very near future with a endocrinologists) it is true doctors don't know everything...

[SANE-A30]

or the flipside of the coin if the family is going to take him home just to die perhaps the hospital is trying to persaude them to just do it there, something with this story is missing...the news loves to blow things out of proportion and as far as the "shipping him to the states for treatment" that screams DO EVERYTHING...just my 2 cents...

[SANE-A30]

wonders how many times you can edit a post Mike you got me on roll now... but i keep going back and editing my same post so i don't bog up this thread..