Unrest in Wisconsin

[Norm357]

Oh please, unions buy politicians left and right. Know why we may not have an NFL season this year? Gasp, players unions.

[retdetsgt]

Why do you think unions were formed in first place? If unions are eliminated, crap like this will come back.

Some people think it's always been this way and have no sense or knowledge of history. Every right workers have today was hard fought for in the last half of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century. It wasn't that long ago that men were working 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week and making barely enough to feed their family. I guess because some people have never seen a sweat shop, they don't believe they ever existed.

I'm old enough to have seen some of this. My grandfather was a tenant farmer, owned no land at all. When he got too old to work, that was it. He had to quit farming during WWII and didn't even have social security. His kids bought a rundown house for he and my grandmother to live in. In the mid 50's, he was getting $90 a month from the state of Texas to live on. He got liver cancer and couldn't afford medical treatment because there was no Medicare. Again the kids got a doctor to prescribe pain meds and they kept him doped up until he died at home. All the kids were laborers too and didn't have the money to get help him much either.

I watched all this happen, it wasn't a pretty sight. And he was no leech, he worked hard all his life and had nothing at the end of it. Could he have prepared for this? Hell no, the old man barely made enough to raise his family. I've got pictures of their house when my mother and her brothers were growing up, it was a friggin' shack they lived in

When my mother had to have gall bladder surgery when I was a kid, my Dad had to borrow the money to pay the doctor and hospital, we had no medical insurance. My Dad worked for the same company for 30+ years and when he retired in 1969, he was given a pension of $38 a month and a one time payment of $3,000. Then he was shown the door. Yep, living in a right to work state all your life sure had its benefits....

[retdetsgt]

Oh please, unions buy politicians left and right. Know why we may not have an NFL season this year? Gasp, players unions.

Yep, and before the NFL union, these guys were getting their brains beat out for your entertainment for peanuts and then having no pension or benefits. And a lot of NFL players suffer pain the rest of their lives after less than a 10 year career.

Why do you think the Black Sox scandal of 1919 came about? The owners were cheating the players right and left. One of the pitchers had been promised a bonus if he won so many games. They quit playing him as soon as he was one short. Again, players got peanuts to play back then. That's what causes unions to be formed.

[ChevySSP]

I guess a person like me can't reallly appreciate what a union does considering we are a right to work state.

However considering we are doing relatively well and we aren't laying off State Troopers perhaps the whole "no union" deal isn't too bad.

Considering that the majority of the south and southwest auto makers have non-unionized workers and make about the same as the ones up north do.

[cntryboy0531]

I guess a person like me can't reallly appreciate what a union does considering we are a right to work state.

However considering we are doing relatively well and we aren't laying off State Troopers perhaps the whole "no union" deal isn't too bad.

Considering that the majority of the south and southwest auto makers have non-unionized workers and make about the same as the ones up north do.

I don't have a union where I work. I fully realize that I have a good Sheriff, that values his Deputies, and tries to compensate them fairly for the job that they do, stands up for them, and goes to bat at budget time with the County Commissioners to get as much as he can for us so that we are happy, and productive employers.

However, I also fully understand that come next election time, if another Sheriff comes in that is truely just looking out for himself and no one else, my pay and benefits may go down the tube and their won't be a thing I can do about it except pack ship and try to go elsewhere. I fully rely upon the good graces of a single person for my pay and benefits. While that person may be good now, the next one may not be. A Unionized department may not be able to save everything, but it's at least someone that is looking out for my interests at work to have a fair place to work. Right now, things are good as they can be in these times. However, things can change on a whim in my department for the reasons stated above.

Other departments in the area have unions. Some have better pay and benenfits than I do, some don't. I live in a right to work state as well, and unions in other places have still been able to hold management's feet to the fire over unfair issues.

Not all unions are bad, some ask for too much and stupid management gives them that much. Frankly, I see The Disney Company doing the same thing now, that the Big 3 automakers did back then. When I worked for Disney (unionized), my base pay was crap. However, Overtime oportunities were so easy to get it was stupid. Anything over 8 hours in one day was overtime, anything over 10 (or maybe 12) in one day was double time. If you worked a shift with less than 8 hours between the finish of your last shift, you get paid whatever overtime rate you are at for that time and then the next shift was 100% doubletime. Hell, I would only work 3-4 days a week at Disney and bring home checks with double time, and time and a half on it. This, is an example of union excess, but it's also an example of management giving them everything they ask for. Management has to do it's job. I can tell when Disney Employee's are about to get some increases in their contract, ticket prices go up. Why does Disney keep doing this? Because Disney thinks they can keep screwing the consumer to give the union and employee's, everything they want. You have to have balances between the union and management. Neither one of them can run rampant. Frankly, I see Disney one day going bankrupt because of this.

However at the same time, you do away with all unions, and I can assure you worker conditions will tank and pay will go down, because the folks at the top will realize that they can get richer, if they keep everybody in a particular field working for piss poor pay. Where can you move to when a company's competition is paying sh1t wages just like the company you're working for now?

Sure we have Federal Labor laws in place to "protect" workers, but how many of you folks have worked, or know of someone immediately who works for a company that violates those labor laws and won't report them because they are afraid of loosing their job? I do, and I'm sure most of you do as well (otherwise we wouldn't have so many damn lawyers on TV telling you to contact them for labor issues. But that's a topic for a different thread). So, just because we have laws on the books to "protect" employee's, doesn't mean they do a damn bit of good if you're too scared to report them.

Unions have to be reigned in from time to time by management when they ask for too much (yet shouldn't be done away with), but management should not be free to run wild on employee pay and benefits issues unchecked either.

[1depd]

I find it interesting that the Dems left Wisconsin to stop the bill from being passed, yet the portions they didn't want were passed last night. Maybe if they had stayed in the state or come back after a few days there would have been some negotiations and the outcome would not have been so bad for the unions. Instead they played their hand and tried hardball, and the GOP returned the favor. From the reports of the mood in the chambers it sounds like nobody was really happy about voting the way they did.

[cntryboy0531]

I find it interesting that the Dems left Wisconsin to stop the bill from being passed, yet the portions they didn't want were passed last night. Maybe if they had stayed in the state or come back after a few days there would have been some negotiations and the outcome would not have been so bad for the unions. Instead they played their hand and tried hardball, and the GOP returned the favor. From the reports of the mood in the chambers it sounds like nobody was really happy about voting the way they did.

I don't agree with the bill. But I don't agree with what the democrats done about it. You are paid, and voted into office to do a job on behalf of the people. By god you should show up and do it, and vote. Not run and hide when things don't go your way. Everyone of those that fled should be impeached from office IMO.

[mobrien316]

I don't agree with the bill. But I don't agree with what the democrats done about it. You are paid, and voted into office to do a job on behalf of the people. By god you should show up and do it, and vote. Not run and hide when things don't go your way. Everyone of those that fled should be impeached from office IMO.

I agree with this 100%. The legistlators who fled the state to avoid doing their job should be removed from office. They should be ashamed of themselves.