Have you ever considered?

[kenny J]

When carnage is concentrated as it was on September 11 into one or two or three events then it affects us powerfully; but when tragedy is diffused it hardly enters our conscience. The people of earth who die of hunger or hunger-related illnesses would fill 300 crashing jumbo jets every day. Three hundred crashing jumbo jets every day. It's true, you can do the arithmetic. More than 40 million people die from hunger worldwide every year and that number is increasing. Practically none of this is shown on television. Most of it is one miserable human being dying alone in some forgotten place, 40 million or more times a year. Forty million human beings perishing while barns in other parts of the world are bulging.

That's the way almost all environmental degradation happens: diffusely and inequitably. That's the way pollution is attacking our life support systems of spaceship earth: in diffuse ways and the poor feel it first. But it hardly penetrates our conscience here in the rich northern hemisphere. The timescales are so long, so very long, by our perception, for much of this degradation and for recovery when it happens. Carbon monoxide, once it's emitted into the atmosphere from burning fossil fuel, stays in the atmosphere for over a hundred years.

Now, here's where I risk losing you. As horrendous as the tragedy of September 11 was, there's a bigger one happening all around us ubiquitously but diffusely so we hardly notice it. What if we could compress the time spell of environmental degradation and concentrate the tragedy so we could look at it the way we look at the tragedy of American Airlines Flight 11 -- the way it was concentrated into those few seconds of pure terror on September 11, 2002. What would we see?

I will try to paint that picture today.
http://ipspr.sc.edu/ejournal/industrialrev.asp

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Mr. Ray Anderson is Chairman and CEO of Interface, Inc., one of the world's largest interior furnishings companies with sales in 110 countries and manufacturing facilities on four continents. Noted for its commitment to high quality design and innovation, Interface has a reputation as a corporation carrying the banner for the environment. Mr. Anderson has articulated his vision in his books, The Journey from There to Here -- The Eco-Odyssey of a CEO (1995); Face It (1996); and Mid-Course Correction (1998).

Mr. Anderson was co-chairman of the President's Council on Sustainable Development, and in 1996 received the inaugural Millennium Award from Global Green, presented to him by Mikhail Gorbachev. In 2001 Mr. Anderson received the George and Cynthia Mitchell International Prize for Sustainable Development.

[Orleander]

Kenny,
Why aren't you working with the Peace Corp, Greenpeace, etc instead of posting on a cop board?
Its not like we are burning coal to run our private nuclear plant in our basement. Its not like we take our waste in our gold-plated Cadillacs to the nearest body of water and dump it. Its not like we buy food just to eat it in front of homeless people and then write to the starving people of the world to tell them how good it tasted.
We all care about these things and we do what we can, when we can. Whether that's donating at our church, volunteering at a shelter, adopting a rescued animal, etc. We also vote these issues. I may feel sad about all the things I can't fix, but I don't feel guilty about having a good life.
Considering you live NY, it must get VERY cold riding your non-fossil fuel driven bike around.
And by the way, its always sad when people die, but on 9/11 it was terrifying. It was sad for the rich stockbroker on the 85th floor, the minimum wage janitor on the 86th floor and the homeless man burned at the base of the building. It was terrifying for all.

[TALLON]

Orl, thank you for saying, in a tactful manner, what I couldn't say in a tactful manner.

[greenlead]

We can't help that their governments are starving them.

[kenny J]

Orleander,

Thanks for your persepctive... I didn't post these in an attempt to make people feel guilty about having a good life, nor am I assuming the rest that you spoke of. I'm not trying to change anyone here since i view that as IMPOSSIBLE. However ALL change begins with awarness so this article simply makes an interesting point or 2.

And by the way, its always sad when people die, but on 9/11 it was terrifying. It was sad for the rich stockbroker on the 85th floor, the minimum wage janitor on the 86th floor and the homeless man burned at the base of the building. It was terrifying for all.

I agree. I wonder then should we then close our eyes to the MORE than 3500 AMERICAN's will die this week because of a product from a Fortune 500 company? CHOICE is not the issue when the FOUNDER of the American Cancer Society showed that cigarettes raised the RISK of cancer in 1915. Plenty of time to have changed the MARKETING of tobacco...

My post was simply an FYI type of thing... not an assault on your character...

AS far as me riding my bike to work, not going to happen.. nor does it need to, the individual cannot FIX the problems of the day. Only a collective can. But at least my car gets 35 MPG...

Ken

PS:

We can't help that their governments are starving them.

YES we can...

[TALLON]

My SUV gets 17mpg.

[kenny J]

My SUV gets 17mpg

Are you really bragging? That's one of the least efficient vehicles ever designed by man. Not to mention LONG braking distances, tendency for rolling over, poor handling, poor acelleration at speed, Very impressive indeed ;)
I know I went thru tires like crazy in my Grand Cherokee because that thing was NO sporty vehicle... Tell me you at least drive off road...

At any rate I hope some of you take the time to read and perhaps even think about the article's assertions BEFORE you draw conclusions, if not that's cool too...

be well,

ken

[metallicat]

I think my Crown Victoria got 15mpg, LOL.

Edit- Oops, I thought this was a competition for least efficiant vehicles!

[TALLON]

Kenny, I would argue that some of the least efficient vehicles ever made by man are the Oil Tanker, the 747 Jumbo Jet, the Space Shuttle, the Abrams M1-A1...the Nissan Pathfinder comes in just a bit lower.

The only time I go off-road is to hit a defenseless deer that has not yet fully made it to the street.

Kenny, I'll make a deal with you, OK? You drive whatever P.O.S. you want and I'll drive whatever I want. Deal? Good. STOP THE PREACHIN' YOUR EMINENCE!!!

Don't wanna *****, it's just that the high moral ground BS gets a little old, and gets old quick!

P.S. No Deer were hurt during the making of this thread.

[mcsap]

If you would go volunteer at the Peace Corps instead of posting here, YOU could probably save some of those jumbo jets full of people that you mentioned.

I donate time and money to homeless organizations and just last week donated another pint of blood that takes me to the 6 gallon mark.

Beyond that I have 3 cars and a 27 ft TT. I get 10 mpg towing my travel trailer.

I have earned all that I have amassed through hard work. Nobody handed me anything. I am the only sibling of 5 who didn't go to college but I am doing quite well and shall retire before any of them.

I think you could do better to WORK on the woes of this planet than to write about them on a police site.

[TALLON]

Did I mention that I have a snowblower, powerwasher, oil heat, a BMW, a riding John Deere lawnmower, no storm windows, a poorly insulated house..and I left my oven on today for the hell of it.

Hey Kenny any thoughts on these?

[kenny J]

Guys,

I have clearly missed comunicated the authors POINT... and you are making some assumptions as to what I care about. This post was not about what car is the best for your personal needs OR even the people that starve to death... HOLY cow... Please read the article, it seems you have gotten caught up in the introduction to it...

It has nothing to do with starving people and everything to do with the sustainablility of OUR economys relationship to the FIXED resources of the planet...

I can assure I have ZERO interest in telling ANYONE what's RIGHT and WRONG... I'm not judging anyone.

I just asked if anyone considered the major premise of this article:

What's the proper relationship between the environment and the economy?

And since there are flows between these two. What are those flows?


Well, from the environment to the economy you have such things as material, water, air, energy and food. Imagine an economy operating without air, without water, without materials, without food.

As a result, the economy grows at the expense of the environment. There are flows in the other direction as well. The economy dumps its waste and pollution and greenhouse gasses into the environment.

And, as a result, the economy grows still more at the expense of the environment. And the question becomes, how long can this go on? How long indeed can this go on?

I trust you understand that big square there is the human capsule of spaceship earth.

So what is the condition of spaceship earth today, fellow astronauts? Here's a bottom line -- a lot of business people want to go to the bottom line -- when you go to the bottom line, there's red ink.

What I'm about to say to you may be shocking, but it's factual. My resources tell me there has not been one peer-reviewed scientific paper published in the last twenty years that would refute or even contradict anything I'm about to say. Every life support system must supportus and 3 million other species on earth. This life support system has a physical shell 8,000 miles in diameter -- the diameter of the earth -- and is only about 10 miles thick extending from sea level about five miles into the depths of the ocean and about five miles into the troposphere -- on a basketball size earth, it would be tissue-paper thin. Every life support system in that biosphere is stressed and in decline -- long-term, systemic decline.

[kenny J]

Did I mention that I have a snowblower, powerwasher, oil heat, a BMW, a riding John Deere lawnmower, no storm windows, a poorly insulated house..and I left my oven on today for the hell of it.

Hey Kenny any thoughts on these?

Sounds like you have plenty of opportunities to save MONEY! Talk to me in 10 years and you let me know what was ecomomically intelligent about some of solutions you are using now... Some are some aren't... You'll figure it out...

ken

PS. the M3 rocks!!!

[ngcsubutterbar]

thanks for the info kenny.


sadly, you 'are' talking to the wrong crowd. I wouldn't call some of these people stubborn. Stubborn people refuse to change as a matter of prinicple. Obstinate would be a good word here. Either way, what that author says is true and it is sad that more isn't being done.

and no I'm not trying to attack people.

[TALLON]

Kenny, have you ever heard the phrase, "the average attention span is equal to the time required to take the average dump"? I don't have a month of Sundays to read your manifesto...and we're out of T/P.