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  1. #46
    PathosLogos's Avatar
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    I don't know what's with the uproar, personally. Other companies, like Ben & Jerry's, have funded liberal organizations (didn't they recently attempt to donate money to the Occupy movement?). If I don't want to support the groups which they donate money to, then I don't buy their products. By the same token, if I don't care about who or what they support, then I'll buy their products. Simple as that.

    And I'm pretty sure it's not a secret that Chik-Fil-A is a conservative, Christian company. Why should anyone be surprised when they admit to having conservative, Christian values? No one should be surprised. Seriously.

    People need to move on with their lives.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackgoat06 View Post
    Ironic considering it usually ruins the happiness of free men :D


    Sorry I couldn't resist.
    Oh, so you're "free" until you're married?

    I'll remember that, "dear."

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PathosLogos View Post
    Oh, so you're "free" until you're married?

    I'll remember that, "dear."
    At least most prisoners have a chance at parole.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchback View Post
    At least most prisoners have a chance at parole.
    LOL...well isn't that called divorce in the marital realm? Though I guess that's more like being on lifetime probation, what with alimony, child support, and so on...

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PathosLogos View Post
    .
    I thought it was funny that Rahm Emmanuel went out to say Chick Fil-A is not welcome they "don't represent Chicago Values" And the next day he has Luis Farrakhan in town to help curb the violence in Chicago, Screwy Louie has said all sorts of non-flattering remarks about gays all the time, So recap: Dan Cathy says "I support tradition marriage" and now he's not welcome in Chi-town, Farrakhan called gays "degenerate crap" and "garbage" but he's welcome with open arms to solve the cities problems. interesting indeed

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwreagan View Post
    First cousin marriage is legal in rhode island for instance, if such s couple were to move to Texas or even my home state of Washington, the marriage would be ruled invalid and they would not have the benefits of married couples in such states. I am unaware of any federal court ruling demanding states like WA accept their marriage licenses from states like RI. What say you?
    I believe you are exactly wrong. That marriage would never be ruled invalid. This has been proven over and over as I said earlier with states that have different ages of consent for marriage. States have different requirements for under-18 marriages. Some allow pregnant 16 y/o to marry without parental consent. Some do not. The term "elope" would not exist if marriages were not recognized by other states. A pregnant 16 y/o elopes to a state, gets a license to get married, get's married, then returns. The state she returns to is obligated to recognize her as married. This happens all the time.

    This is how it works: The state grants you a license to get married when you meet that state's requirements. The marriage is performed and you get a marriage certificate that indicates your status as "married." At that point it becomes a status, not a license.

    Your birth certificate works the same way. Once a state has issued a birth certifcate, it's a status, not a license. States have different laws for birth certificates. All recognize birth certificates from other states. A state cannot revoke your birth status or deny you residence in the state or any benefit of a resident because of a difference in laws in issuing birth certificates.

    This all stems from the "full faith and credit" clause in the constitution and the federal government can set laws on what acts, records and proceedings are forced to be recognized. DOMA is an attempt to limit that for Gay marriages. If DOMA is upheld, state amendments that refuse to recognize gay marriages will be valid.

    But as for your request, here are a number of marriage "full faith and credit" rulings forcing states to recognize marriages htat originated in other states in other states.

    Parish v. Minvielle, 217 So.2d 684, 688 (Ct. Of App. La. 1969) (Louisiana does
    not recognize or permit common-law marriages but must give effect to them when validly
    contracted in Texas); Guidry v. Mezeal, 487 So. 2d 780, 781 (Ct. Of Appeals La. 3rd Cir.
    1986); Succession of Rodgers, 499 So. 2d 429, 495 (Ct. Of Appeals La. 2d. Cir. 1986);
    Commonwealth ex rel. Alexander v. Alexander, 289 A.2d 83, 86 (Pa. 1971) (Jones, J.,
    concurring) (Pennsylvania must give full faith and credit to a Georgia marriage certificate);
    Orsburn v. Graves, 210 S.W.2d 496 (Ak. 1948) (Arkansas must give full faith and credit to
    validly contracted Texas common-law marriage). Although New York does not recognize
    common-law marriages, it gives Art. IV ' 1 full faith and credit to marriages that are valid under
    the laws of other states. Thomas v. Sullivan, 922 F.2d 132, 134 (2nd Cir. 1990); Ram v.
    Ramharack, 571 N.Y.S.2d 190 (N.Y. Sp. Ct. Queens Cty 1991).

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwreagan View Post
    I thought it was funny that Rahm Emmanuel went out to say Chick Fil-A is not welcome they "don't represent Chicago Values" And the next day he has Luis Farrakhan in town to help curb the violence in Chicago, Screwy Louie has said all sorts of non-flattering remarks about gays all the time, So recap: Dan Cathy says "I support tradition marriage" and now he's not welcome in Chi-town, Farrakhan called gays "degenerate crap" and "garbage" but he's welcome with open arms to solve the cities problems. interesting indeed
    That is one of the few things I agree with you on in this thread. Emmanuel and the mayor of Boston are way out of line being critical of Cathy. THAT is what the first amendment is about.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was, and now what I'm with isn't it. And what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. -Grampa Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat_Doc View Post
    You just gotta realize he is hard of hearing and cranky, and try to speak up more clearly next time and make it perfectly clear what you were saying so there is no misinterpretation. You gotta try not to get mad at the old guy, recognizing the issue at hand.

  8. #53
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    Johnson versus Johnson, Washington Supreme Court rules that a marriage contracted to avoid Washington law is invalid if the parties are Washington residents. I don't believe any of the case law you provided (which normally I would read the opinions but almighty google is coming up short, thats what sucks about law suits involving people with common names) refer to full faith and credit permitting evasive marriage.

    Because state courts have consistently rule evasive marriages illegal. so if a pair of WA residents who are 1st cousins flies to Rhode Island, get married there and return, WA can legally rule their marriage void because they would have travelled to avoid Washington law, i find all sorts of court cases in state courts as recently as 2010 that have ruled this, I dont think that would be the case if SCOTUS or a Circuit court had definitively ruled all out of state marriages must be recognized.

    Also, Arizona, Utah, Texas, and New Hampshire have laws on the books stating they will not recognize an out of state first cousin marriage by anyone. I'm not sure how often that is enforced or if it is even enforcable. to be honest I've been having a hell of a time finding case law for out of state marriages of any kind frankly

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwreagan View Post

    And ImHO the majority of gay rights supporters are not really sincere. As I pointed out earlier. The gay rights supporter who thought it was morally wrong for cousins to get married. That view is widely held amongst gay rights supporters at least that I've talked to. Along with the majority of gays I know think the same way. So really they don't want equal rights, the want a limited extension of a privilege to just them. See that I don't like.
    I don't see that cousins marrying is "morally" wrong, the problem is that they may have kids with inbred problems. That wouldn't be an issue with gay people. Again, I don't see how gay people getting married and having the same rights as heterosexual couples will be a detriment to society where kids from inbreeding may.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was, and now what I'm with isn't it. And what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. -Grampa Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat_Doc View Post
    You just gotta realize he is hard of hearing and cranky, and try to speak up more clearly next time and make it perfectly clear what you were saying so there is no misinterpretation. You gotta try not to get mad at the old guy, recognizing the issue at hand.

  10. #55
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    Right now in Washington, proponents of gay marriage aren't doing bad in the polls. That referendum may not pass if a lot of liberals come to vote for Obama.

    Losing streak for gay marriage over? Polls | Strange Bedfellows Politics News - seattlepi.com

    Opponents generally win because it's a hot button issue with fanatics and not so much with people who are unaffected. And there aren't that many gay people to vote.

    Bezos from Amazon.com gave $2.5 million in support for it in Washington so for one of the few times, there will be money backing it. When Oregon voted for it, only the opponents of gay marriage ran ads.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was, and now what I'm with isn't it. And what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. -Grampa Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat_Doc View Post
    You just gotta realize he is hard of hearing and cranky, and try to speak up more clearly next time and make it perfectly clear what you were saying so there is no misinterpretation. You gotta try not to get mad at the old guy, recognizing the issue at hand.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by retdetsgt View Post
    I don't see that cousins marrying is "morally" wrong, the problem is that they may have kids with inbred problems. That wouldn't be an issue with gay people. Again, I don't see how gay people getting married and having the same rights as heterosexual couples will be a detriment to society where kids from inbreeding may.
    From what I understand children of first cousins rarely have problems with inbreeding. It usually takes 5 to 7 generations of sustained marriages of the sort AT LEAST to make genetic problems. I can make the argument that children might not develop psycologically in a healthy way in a household from same sex parents, and becuase a gay marriage is equal to any marriage in your eyes, they would (and are in states where gay marriage is legal) be fully able to adopt children.... So I can equal your argument there.

    And what susbstantial damage to society does inbreeding do, the entire Pennsylvania Amish are descended from a few hundred settlers in the late 1600s. and Hell the Amish almost looks like the ideal society. everyone cares for each other, they share their toys, never use violence, get together and do stuff as a community. obviously inbreeding hasnt made their soceity that much worse for wear.

  12. #57
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    No argument, if that causes no problem, then we should let them marry. Frankly, I don't care one way or the other about polygamy either. If a man is dumb enough to have more than one wife, that should be his problem.

    The "moral" aspect of it is too abstract for me. As long as everyone are consenting adults, I don't think a lot of it is other peoples' business.

    Besides, society's morals are really fluid and change all the time. When I was a young vice cop, I arrested and got convictions on people for running numbers games. Today, it's known as your state lottery. Also we arrested people for selling the same pornography you can rent on your cable or satellite pay per view. I have little doubt that marijuana is going to be legal at some point, maybe a decade or two from now, but it will happen. When something becomes socially acceptable enough, laws have to change to accommodate as long as the issue is just a "moral" one and involves consenting adults.
    Last edited by retdetsgt; 08-02-12 at 08:07 PM.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was, and now what I'm with isn't it. And what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. -Grampa Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat_Doc View Post
    You just gotta realize he is hard of hearing and cranky, and try to speak up more clearly next time and make it perfectly clear what you were saying so there is no misinterpretation. You gotta try not to get mad at the old guy, recognizing the issue at hand.

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