Police: Student killed by officers had pellet gun

[MikeG]

Police: Student killed by officers had pellet gun - Yahoo! News

I wish they only told the officers "justified" or "not justified." Tragic all the way around but they don't need to hear "it was only a pellet gun." It's going to be hard enough for them to deal with what they were forced to do without that. I'm thankful they were there to deal with this and sad for what they must be going through.

I also wish the people writing these stories would use the same story construction and headlines if it had been their kid staring down the pistol in the picture. I don't think I would have given him half the chance those officers did if he was pointing that thing at my kid. I certainly wouldn't have been thinking "wait, maybe it's only a pellet gun."

Be safe.

[ET109]

I saw a news report about this yesterday while I was in a hospital waiting room. Heard the 911 tapes of people screaming that he was going to kill them, was raising his gun, etc. Heard the officers yelling at him to drop it, again and again; then the shots.

Then I saw the father try and blame them for shooting his son because he was young. As if young people don't kill. Gee, I wonder where he got that gun, and who wasn't watching it or him.

[MikeG]

I saw the father claiming excessive force because one of the 3 shots was in the head. It's sad he lost his son. I have more sympathy for the officers that were forced to kill him, though. At some point, a person becomes responsible for their actions. We don't usually force children to pay a forever price on crimes whence expungement at 18 and the whole juvenile corrections system. Sometimes, though, they force a 'forever' penalty on themselves whether it's a tried as adult felony or, in this case, justified lethal force.

Those officers did what they had to do. Everyone at that school was afraid he was going to kill them and he did nothing that would cause them to think otherwise. I don't blame the dad for his sons' actions but I hope one day he will be humble and grateful that his son didn't kill anyone. I'm wondering if the Klebold family doesn't wish sometimes that an officer had intervened earlier. They lost their kid, too, along with a bunch of other ones they probably feel responsible for.

Unfortunately, those officers will have to live with killing a 15 year old with a pellet gun. It's easy to say 'justified, no other choice, move on' but I suspect it's quite a bit different for the officer having to walk in those shoes. I suspect it's a lot like the second guessing partners go through when one is shot. No matter how many people tell them they did all they could, there is still the doubt and overwhelming grief. I hope their departments give these officers the time, counseling and support they need.

[pafindr]

It turned out that the injury to the back of his head was when he fell and not a gunshot wound.
He received two shots to the torso.

I read one article where the parents were asking why the officers didn't shoot him in the arm or leg instead of kill shots to the body.
It's tough when a parent loses a child and I can empathize with them but they should be asking why their kid decided to bring a gun to school, threaten other kids with the gun, punch a kid in the face, not listen to police when told to drop the gun, and why did he point the gun at police.

[ET109]

There was no way to know it wasn't a real gun- I've come across one of these in someone's hand before, and the pucker factor is the same.

Imagine if it was a real gun, and the police hadn't acted quickly. I wonder how much outrage there would be if a couple more kids died because police didn't stop the shooter.

[MikeG]

There was no way to know it wasn't a real gun- I've come across one of these in someone's hand before, and the pucker factor is the same.

Imagine if it was a real gun, and the police hadn't acted quickly. I wonder how much outrage there would be if a couple more kids died because police didn't stop the shooter.

No doubt. It's the officers I'm concerned about. I recently saw a case where the "suicide by cop" guy pulled out a flip phone. No doubt that he wanted the police to think it was a real gun and that's what the responding officer "saw" when we shot him. No way to tell other than it looked like a gun in the dark, he acted like it was a gun, and he refused commands to stop moving. Justified doesn't mean the officer isn't affected differently, though. In the end he has to be okay with shooting someone with a cell phone (or in the above case a 15 year old with a pellet gun). I don't think that process is automatic or quick.

[TEXASCOP]

There was no way to know it wasn't a real gun- I've come across one of these in someone's hand before, and the pucker factor is the same.

Imagine if it was a real gun, and the police hadn't acted quickly. I wonder how much outrage there would be if a couple more kids died because police didn't stop the shooter.

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

[greg72982]

Here is a pic of the gun used:




Even up close it looks alot like a Glock but from a distance it definitely would have

[MikeG]

Here is a pic of the gun used:




Even up close it looks alot like a Glock but from a distance it definitely would have

Point that at my kid in a threatening manner and I don't think there is any hesitation. Unless I can make out the .177 caliber writing on the side.

I'm surprised they haven't been sued out of existence. I can't imagine some lawyer hasn't filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the replica gun maker.

[ET109]

I'm surprised they haven't been sued out of existence. I can't imagine some lawyer hasn't filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the replica gun maker.

I'm sure, but I suspect the legal hurdles they would face are the same facing those who sue gun manufacturers; it's the plaintiff's actions, not the gun itself, that cause the problem. Shooting these things out in the woods or whatever is not a problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tighten up the law to make manufacturers color the tips on the pellet guns and airsoft ones as well. I don't think that's a great answer, though. As an officer, how many would be able and willing to decide such a gun was not a threat, and therefore does not necessitate a deadly force response? Besides, a pellet gun *can* kill or maim, even if its not as likely. I don't think there is a legislative answer to stupidity and emotional problems, the two causes here.

[MikeG]

I'm sure, but I suspect the legal hurdles they would face are the same facing those who sue gun manufacturers; it's the plaintiff's actions, not the gun itself, that cause the problem. Shooting these things out in the woods or whatever is not a problem.

The difference is it's accessibility. Can a 15 year old purchase this lawfully from the store? These things should be no different than spray paint or cigarettes. I would also think that companies like Glock or Sig would have an issue with companies making money off the "likeness" of their pistols. I imagine if it was one of those cheap gun manufacturers that made a real $150 Glock look-alike that Glock would sue them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tighten up the law to make manufacturers color the tips on the pellet guns and airsoft ones as well. I don't think that's a great answer, though. As an officer, how many would be able and willing to decide such a gun was not a threat, and therefore does not necessitate a deadly force response? Besides, a pellet gun *can* kill or maim, even if its not as likely. I don't think there is a legislative answer to stupidity and emotional problems, the two causes here.

I think the orange tip would be bad training mojo. I read that gangs in LA already put orange paint on their guns as it may make an officer hesitate if they've been trained to associate orange tips with innocent kids playing with toys.

Secondly, it's a liability nightmare for cops. Imagine this pistol had an orange tip and they still shot him because it still looks like a real gun as you said above and the 15 year-old is a gang banger. Now the question before the civil jury is whether a reasonable person (or police officer, depending on law) would believe a gun with the "I'm a toy" orange tip posed a threat with the hindsight knowledge that it was indeed a toy.

It kind of sucks because, for me, if I see an 8 year old running around with an orange tipped pistol, I think toy. That's a good thing because then I don't particularly worry whether the neighbor kid has an actual gun during his cops and robbers game. Not that I would shoot him, but I don't have to stop and check every time to see what he is playing with. I can see it's a toy. For 15 year-old gang member though, I wouldn't trust that. 15 year-olds don't play like 8 year-olds. I can imagine the same is true for officers that are clearing a house and come across a 5 year old that decided to play cops and robbers with them and has orange tipped toy. The orange tip may save that 5 y/o's life.

[flaleo]

It always bugs me how the public thinks we should take arm/leg shots or worse, shoot the gun from the bg's hand! What's worse is they truly believe this. Age is just not a factor these days. I think what I was doing at 15..it certainly wasn't what these kids do today that's for sure. It's sad how parents seem to have lost all control of their kids. Poor parenting and lack of care has caused these events. To top it all off, they blame everybody else in these situations. Crap, just crap.

[Wolfman]

I was actually pleasantly surprised at how many pro-LEO statements came out of the story in the "comments" section. It seemed like a majority were positive and understood that the LEO responded to the inputs that the teenager gave him. That being said, I read the comments yesterday so the other side may have woken up to put their hate up by now.

Bad situation, but in the times of Columbine, Virginia Tech, and young folks shooting their fellow students up - if you bring a gun to school and you don't immediately follow the officer's commands, it will not end well.