Caseless Ammo

[rambo]

ANY ARMORY PEOPLE HAVE ANY BUZZ, ON THE NEW CASELESS AMMO, H&K HAS A PROTOTYPE,

[Norm357]

If you're referring to the G-11, that thing came out back in the 1980's.

*SNORT*

Edited to add: Everything you have ever wanted to know about the H&K G-11.

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms...les/HK_G11.htm

[Humpy]

ANY ARMORY PEOPLE HAVE ANY BUZZ, ON THE NEW CASELESS AMMO, H&K HAS A PROTOTYPE,

The US Small Arms community has spent near on to 50 million chasing this dream. By small arms community I mean the government.
The plus side is alot of ammo in small area.
No cases to pick up.

The minus side, caseless ammo is at the mercy of the elements/external influence. i.e. it won't take submersion in water. Duh this is what the case does for you.
It won't take exposure to external heat. Ever been around a vehicle fire?
One round ignites then fratracide chain ignites remainder of magazine.
I have seen caseless gun firing full auto ignite every round while still in the magazine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You drop your ammo or sit on it or hit the deck and your ammo is crushed.
You store extra ammo in your trunk or wherever and subject it to vibrations, this stuff will go to pieces.

Maintenance on a caseless weapon is a bear. What about all the residue remaining in the chamber?

You gonna oil your weapon right? If oil will kill (over time) standard ammo IN THE CASE) how quick will it kill it out of the case?

You gotta remember one thing, these salesmen will tell you anything to get something new out there.

You can carry loose cased ammo in your pocket. Not caseless, this is a stacked system that must be in its own case.

Where you gonna buy your ammo? Walmart? Like the new Remington 700s with the electric triggers two years back. Where are they now? Never seen or even heard of anyone with one.

We have had caseless munitions for years. It is called muzzle loaders and if you have ever shot one you know what a maintenance hog it is.

I can remember sliding into patrol cars and getting one hell of a static shock.
Especially in the winter. This can set off caseless ammo very easily.

Remember the warnings about carrying spare handheld batts in your pocket with ammo? Same principle.

Now for the technical side, when the primer is initiated and flash is introduced into the propellant you have to have a resulting very fast rise in pressure to move the projectile forward. How is this done? Well in the real world the pressure is contained in a vessel called the cartridge case which controls and directs the pressure until the projectile is released.

In caseless systems you must have a completely enclosed chamber that will hold (in the case of handgun ammunition) about 30,000 lbs PSI. What happens if the chamber has the slightest leak? This is called a rocket. Caseless ammo behaves in much the same way as a rocket burns solid fuel except in the case of rockets, if the propellant doesn't have a place to exhaust it will explode which is what is required by a caseless system.

Now you shoot a bunch of rounds on the range and weapons gets hot. You quit shooting but want to keep your weapon ready so you leave a round in the chamber right? Can't do this with caseless.

As you can figure by now all the problems presented by caseless ammunition is readily solved by using the cartridge case.

Glad I am retired now and don't have to listen to the slimey sleazy gun salesmen BS. It is a big enough problem getting reliable weapons systems into the police arsenals in this country. This compounded by the fact that for some inexplicable reason, cops tend to believe everything a factory sales rep says as if it came from the Bible. I have seen this time and time again.
Next time a factory rep tells you something that doesn't sound quite right, take down what he says, type it up and send it to the Chief Engineer of the gun company he represents and ask if he concurs.

Remember guys, you don't ask the question unless you know the answer. I have seen maybe one gun rep that was marginally knowledgeable in the small arms field. There is no reason to believe this situation has changed since I retired.

In the bottom line the only difference between a car salesman and a gun salesman is what they sell. Only shot by a little old lady every fifth sunday on leap year.....................

For what its worth.