Do you approve of waterboarding?

[retdetsgt]

Personally I'm amazed that some liberals have chosen LE as a profession, when they believe basic interrogation techniques are too harsh.:confused:

Bill, if he's liberal, he's the best armed liberal I know....:eek:

I don't see it as a basic interrogation technique any more than cops beating confessions out of suspects. Stuff like that doesn't generally get reliable info. People will tell you anything to get you to stop. Like any kind of physical torture, it does more for the pleasure center of the waterboarder than it does getting what you want to know from the waterboardee. I would not like to put my life at risk based on any information obtained by any form of physical torture.

Trickery and psychological methods work much, much better than anything physical. The secret to good interrogation is to get the person to trust you, then you get reliable intelligence. Otherwise, it's like trying to get loyalty from a dog by beating it everyday.

Again, I don't care a whit about the terrorists, but I would suspect they're exaggerating when they say they got much worthwhile by that technique.

[ChevySSP]

Wait a minute, I thought all RPers were liberal :eek:

[retdetsgt]

Wait a minute, I thought all RPers were liberal :eek:

Only Greg. He's the only always asking for hugs......:D

[ChevySSP]

lol ouch thats a low blow...


To his credit he only asks for hugs from the girls.


Now Cat Doc and CoC on the other hand.......:D

[Cat_Doc]

Only Greg. He's the only always asking for hugs......:D

Yep, Greg is our token liberal. :p

If he denies it, go to the squirrel thread. 'Nuff said.

[Cat_Doc]

lol ouch thats a low blow...


To his credit he only asks for hugs from the girls.


Now Cat Doc and CoC on the other hand.......:D

Okay, I have been cutting you some slack, youngster. You are about to receive an old fashioned tune up. :cool:

[retdetsgt]

Okay, I have cutting you some slack, youngster. You are about to receive an old fashioned tune up. :cool:

Somebody's about to think waterboarding is like a day at the park.....:eek:

[ChevySSP]

:eek: :cool:

I calls them like I sees them. :D


Back to the topic on hand, I don't see why waterboarding is such a big deal. Its relatively harmless.

I agree with retdet on the use of torture, but I have to say that a skilled interrigator will know the limits of the interrigation. That way you don't have the psychological breakdown of the suspect and he gets to the point that he believes everything that he tells you.

[Plazoo]

Trickery and psychological methods work much, much better than anything physical. The secret to good interrogation is to get the person to trust you, then you get reliable intelligence. Otherwise, it's like trying to get loyalty from a dog by beating it everyday.

Again, I don't care a whit about the terrorists, but I would suspect they're exaggerating when they say they got much worthwhile by that technique.

I agree with retdet for the most part, however, when it come to a believed time limit to obtain info, such as trying to stop a bombing or other terror plot you believe is imminent, then I say do whatever you need to in order to get the info.

[CityOfChicago]

Bill,

I was being truthful about the Geneva Convention. Terrorists do not meet the definition of combatant as defined under the Convention, therefore they are not protected under it. Terrorists are defined as criminals. Actually, they'd have more "rights", if you were, if they were in fact protected. Their failing to meet the definiton of combatant means they can actually be treated more harshly then captured enemy soldiers.

I reject the blanket term "liberal". I think we should go out and kill everyone. Having said that, I do not support waterboarding.

We live in a time where we can operate radio-controlled cars on Mars, listen to Chinese soldiers discuss American Idol while sitting in their tent in Nepal, eavsdrop on thousands of American telephone calls and use computers to hit on specific key words, and measure and analyze the effect of cow farts on global warming. You mean to tell me we don't have the capability to ferret these fuks out and find out what their doing? We don't have the humint because we don't develop it - so develop it and use it. Like RDS said, we can psyop these backward fuks like Dr. Phil works a fat chick outta donuts, so lets use that. The combination of sigint, humint, ans psyops will tell us all we need to know. We have the resources we need, we just need to dedicate the effort.

I have a hard time accepting the duplicitous statement we send when we condemn human rights abuses in other countries, then we do the same thing. Are these terrorist pieces of shit? Of course. But let's set the example here. How do you convince the people - win the hearts and minds - when you say that America is the land of freedom and the you pull some Inquisition move, then engage in a Bill Clinton argument over what the definition of "is" is. America has the resources to get the intel without muddying the waters uselessly and detrimentally.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I don't believe in waterboarding being an "across the board" technique. I'm all for using it, but there are instances when it shouldn't be used. I personally see it as a "last resort" technique when all others have failed, or when time is of the essence and it's critical that we have information "yesterday." Sigint and humint work only to a certain extent. Finding ways to twist people that come from a society like the Middle East is difficult. They don't value the same things we do. Sometimes we have the luxury of developing a "relationship" and extracting information, sometimes we don't.

I say leave it in the toolbox and use it when it's needed - don't use it "just because." It's not solely to be used as a means of torture.

[CityOfChicago]

I say leave it in the toolbox

I love to put my tool in the box.

[BP348]

I'm more with CoC, Sgt S, & RDS. I think it should be a last resort kind of thing.

I'd have to go back and find it but didn't they waterboard one of those guys like 100+ times in a month?

RDS is right you start to do this to much and people are just going to start telling you stuff to make it stop.

I also read in the paper the other day that Jessy "The Body" Ventura believes it's tourture and went thru it as part of his training for the SEAL's.

[CityOfChicago]

Psyops works on everybody. If you are dealing with a different culture, then you find the triggers for people of that culture and push them. Other techniques are culturally independent, such as refusing sunlight and then altering over time the length of the days and nights or denying enuff sleep to enter REM.

Humint is a skillset developed over time. We shoulld have never given up so mush of our humint capabilities for sigint. You run into cave-dwellers like Osama who use couriers and tape-recorders and sigint means d1ck. Find the balance. Use all three in whatever combination works.

I'll pose this question: What if a video surfaced from the MidEast that showed captured US military being waterboarded? It has already been suggested in this thread that the Geneva Convention is worthless, so then throw out any complaints you may have over this as a violation. A video is released that shows captured US military being repeatedly waterboarded, each day, with a disclaimer saying that it's not torture, but the enemy deems it necessary in order to find out where the next big military strike by the US will be. Would you stand by your currentargument and say that it's OK for them to be waterboarded because it's not torture? Or would you cry out in outrage "How dare they do that to Americans!" Because I guarantee you, that's a similar thing they cry out in the MidEast when they see us waterboarding their people. We're helping to create new terrorists, born of the same indignation you would feel if the roles were reversed.

[Reconciler]

Short answer...yes I support it. I also support using other means so that the terrorists are getting hit from various angles. These people are trained to hate everything about America and are not going to start giving answers simply because we ask nicely. IMHO they aren't going to be impressed that we aren't torturing those in custody and then be nice to our military in return. I see where you are coming from CoC with that analogy you presented, but these people are fighting a holy war. I can't accept that their hate and desire to destroy us will be any less severe based on how we interrogate.

The liberal line of "let's be friends so that they will like us" will get us nowhere. IMO it is a slap in the face to throw our military in harms way and then tell them "we are taking the high road and not using any harsh interogation tactics." And depending on who is defining torture...we may not be able to use pyschology since that could be "mental" torture. These terrorists need to know that we are going to protect our people and if that means waterboarding then waterboard.