Reasons for Criminal Behavior?

[Jennifer]

Hi!! I am reading "Inside the Criminal Mind" (Samenow, 2004) (and I wonder why I don't get dates! :D) and it has made me think of a few questions I would like to share with all of you.

Background:
This book discusses and pretty much tears apart common theoretical "reasons" for criminal behavior. For example: poverty causes crime, lack of education causes crime, abuse and neglect cause crime, etc..etc...

Bottom line is: People have choices. I am sure that many of you have heard all the reasons why someone did something, heck, I hear it all the time in my line of work. My counter is: Did anyone put a gun to your head and force you to smoke crack?? So far, the answer has been no, but you never know...

People in the helping profession (including mine) point to these theories as ways of explaining and hopefully stopping criminality. However, it seems as though in today's society, these theories are becoming crutches for criminals. It is almost as if we are giving an excuse for the criminal, in essence, we are victimizing the criminal and in some cases, criminalizing the victims.

Questions:
So, what do you think are the reasons for criminal behavior? Do you agree or disagree with what I have posited?
I decided to post this for everyone to answer not just police officers because I'm sure everyone will have an opinion. There really are no right or wrong
answers. I hope this will be a stimulating discussion.

[Norm357]

Hmmmm. I am far from the smartest person on this board, but I will take a stab at it.

what do you think are the reasons for criminal behavior?

Simple. Some people look for the easiest way to get ahead. Others are just nuts.

Having known, lived with, and been friends with some hard core bad guys, I have come to believe that they are just wired different.

When it comes to addicts who commit crimes, I believe that they are weak willed.

I hope this made some sense.

Norm

[retdetsgt]

Sociology was my major.

Sure, poverty has a great deal to do with criminal behavior. But mostly because poor people tend to not pay as much attention to their kids growing up. When I worked our ghetto, I was also working on my masters. There were a significant number of children we call garden kids, they were fed and watered, but that was about all. Lotsa single moms who wanted kids looking for unconditional love, but found raising kids got tough when they turned about 7 or 8 and refused to obey. They let the kids run the street and had more little ones. The kids never really learn right from wrong and were taught their social mores from others their own age, not a good thing.

And sure, people have choices, but when you have no education, no prospect for a decent job and the only time you feel good about yourself is when you're smoking crack, why not?

In uniform, I worked the poor African American neighborhoods and then went to another precinct and worked an equally poor white neighborhood. There was little difference in the crime rate nor the attitudes of the people. Garden kids and single moms were present there too.

Again, people do have choices, but it's a hell of a lot easier to make good choices when you grow up in a two parent house where you see at least one parent go to work on a daily basis and those parents take the time to be parents. A whole lot of kids don't get the benefit of that kind of raising.

When we started requiring a bachelor's degree, I saw a certain elitism in the young officers that made me a little sick. They never had to do without a thing in their lives and mommy and daddy gave them everything. That was all well and good, but they look down on the people who didn't have those benefits. They think that because they were given an environment where making good choices was encouraged, everyone should be held to the same standard. I'm not saying that excuses criminal behavior, but they still should be treated as human beings.

We're not going to get rid or poverty nor can we get rid of crime. Every nation in the world has people who live below the radar of the cultural norms, both financially and morally.

One of the most successful programs for rehabilitating juvenile crooks was one where they took the kid and through intensive therapy took the kid back to when they were a victim, before they became a predator. It worked on the premise that just about all were victims early in life and they were pretty much right. The recidivism rate was less than 36%, when was phenomenal.

As far as addicts, being a recovering alcoholic, I can testify that addicts and alcoholics are wired differently too. Like any mental disease, if you don't have it, it's hard to understand it.

And then you have people that are just mean and have no empathy for others. Nothing will change them and their environment probably had little to do their criminal behaviors. Just look at Congress......;)

[Jennifer]

I am not talking about addicts alone here. That was just an example I used from work to indicate choice. Many of you have a lot of experience which often supercedes "book knowledge" so don't worry about an intelligent answer.
Well, at least sound like you know what you are talking about!!!

[suzanne1020U.S.]

I am not talking about addicts alone here. That was just an example I used from work to indicate choice. Many of you have a lot of experience which often supercedes "book knowledge" so don't worry about an intelligent answer.
Well, at least sound like you know what you are talking about!!!

LOL...You're funny.

[retdetsgt]

This book discusses and pretty much tears apart common theoretical "reasons" for criminal behavior. For example: poverty causes crime, lack of education causes crime, abuse and neglect cause crime, etc..etc...

Does the author then explain why people w/o education, people in poverty, etc. produce such a significantly higher number of criminals than the educated who make a decent living?

As far as victims of abuse, look at rape. The underlying motive of rape isn't sex, but power. If I can force someone to do something sexual that they don't want to do, I have to power to kill them. And you can bet the victim knows that.

I've interviewed at least a couple of hundred rapists over the years. Once they are caught, it's rare to find someone who's confident, arrogant, etc. They revert back to their own victim mode fairly easily. You can bet that they learned to gain power in their lives from having it taken away earlier. Again, that doesn't mean they shouldn't have to take responsibility for their actions, but it does explain behavior.

I was watching a TV show about the original detective on the Green River murders. He's now the sheriff of that county. He and some others went to Florida and interviewed Ted Bundy to pick his brain about the killer. The sheriff made a big point about how the media played up Bundy as some sort of suave, confident, good looking guy. He said Bundy was none of those things. In prison, he was a little, meek guy with a limp wrist handshake. That pretty much describes a lot of murderers and rapists I've encountered over the years. They're only powerful when they are with someone much less powerful than them.

As far as neglect being a cause, don't you think it might be tough to have empathy for others when no one has empathy for you when you're growing up? From what I've read and especially from what I've seen, I believe people learn morals and ethics before age 10, probably earlier. If they aren't taught them by then, they are are pretty much lost to society. You see it all the time in juvenile delinquents. The parents who don't bother to parent by enforcing consistant, reasonable rules and show love when the kid is small and physically controllable are then are puzzled as to why the kid won't listen to them when they are 16 and too big to physically punish. Beating a little kid teaches them fear, not respect.

A good book on rapists is "Men Who Rape" by a guy named DeGroth.

All that being said, property crimes may well be a horse of a different color. I never liked working those as a detective, mostly because the crooks didn't have much of a guilty conscience. And although poor people might steal more, their motives may be a little different from the middle class thief. And thieves of various genres do permeate a broader spectrum of society than violent crimes.

[ChesCopPodz]

I agree with retdetsgt. Criminals I come across usually fall into one of three groups A) druggies who steal to further their habit, B) people who commit their crimes to feel powerful and dominant, and C) people who dont care at all whether or not their hurting someone else as long as they get what they want. There is the exception now and then, but by far most I arrest are one of the three


On a side note, I love the "garden kid" term. If you don't mind I'm going to start using it.

[shugs]

ChesCopPodz-- C) people who dont care at all whether or not their hurting someone else as long as they get what they want

What he said.
People that can only live in the "now" and can't be bother to think down the road.

[grumpyirishman]

Questions:
So, what do you think are the reasons for criminal behavior?

Forget everything you learned from the left wing liberal academia.


Criminal behavior is caused by sociopathic, narcissistic persons who lack any morals, integrity, or ethics who choose themselves over the world. We commonly refer to them as slugs.:cool:

[bluelightzgrl]

ChesCopPodz-- C) people who dont care at all whether or not their hurting someone else as long as they get what they want

What he said.
People that can only live in the "now" and can't be bother to think down the road.

Criminal behavior is caused by sociopathic, narcissistic persons who lack any morals, integrity, or ethics who choose themselves over the world. We commonly refer to them as slugs. :cool:

shugs and grumpyirishman summed it up best.

Not that I don't agree with ChesCopPodz's other 2 categories. However, in the end both "A" and "B" fall into the third group -individuals that do not care whether they hurt you, their mother, a stranger or anyone else around them; just as long as it makes them feel good and they get what they want.

Forget everything you learned from the left wing liberal academia.

:D

[retdetsgt]

I'm not disagreeing with what they are, but the question is how did they get that way. From the brief description Jennifer gave of the book, that guy is saying that environment has nothing to do with the making of criminals. That's what I think is bull****.

As far as liberal BS, that comes into play when they start talking about what to do about it. But it doesn't take a rocket scientest to figure out that if you mistreat a kid his whole childhood, he's going to be a screwed up adult. And if you take the time to look into the background of just about any violent criminal, you're going to see a violent childhood. There are exceptions, but not many. Liberal has nothing to do with that. Throwing money at the problem is the liberal horse****.

The most dangerous person I ever met was a nine year old kid in the state mental hospital. His stepfather literally puts the boots to the kid, sodomized him with a broom handle on numerous occasions and God knows what all. I don't think anyone will ever find out what all happened to that little boy. That kid was a reptile that had no emotions or empathy for anyone. He had turned off his emotions so much in order to survive that I doubt he will ever be able to return to society. And he sure as hell wasn't born that way.

[bluelightzgrl]

From the brief description Jennifer gave of the book, that guy is saying that environment has nothing to do with the making of criminals. That's what I think is bull****.

I'll agree with you. Environment has a lot to do with the making.

A violent childhood can make or break a kid. Like that 9 year old boy you described; they draw inside themselves, turn off their emotions and it becomes only what suits them. You treat a person like an animal long enough, they become that animal.

On the other hand of violent childhoods, you have those who grow up with violence. No I'm not talking about movies and video games -if you can not successfully teach your child the difference between reality and tv/games they you have zero business being a parent. I'm talking about the ones who grow up with constant violence in their schools, their neighborhoods and inside the four walls of their home. The ones who see these day to day violent activities and just assume that is normal. The ones who are constantly watching adults solve their problems with physical (or emotional) violence. The child grows up thinking this is the "norm" and they become just like these adults they have watch; a product of their environment.

Then I've also seen the group where as a child they feel they were dealt a raw hand about something and want to blame everyone else around them for it. I'm not talking about a form of violence. Maybe a little bit of emotional trauma, or even as small as not getting enough attention from mom or dad. Either way, they want to push everyone away at the same time blaming all these people for everything that is wrong in their life and only focus on the here and now for instant gratification. Whether it's through booze, sex, drugs or all of the above; eventually it becomes a downward spiral into our infamous category.

[Silver Fox]

IMO, it has a lot to do with the way a kid was raised. At the tender age of 5 my Dad taught me with a razor strop that it was wrong to steal and lie.
Those 2 things were chisled in me like stone from that moment till this day.
I think leniency and a lack of true concern on the part of parents is the major cause of crime today. The old saying, spare the rod and spoil the child still holds true from the days of our founding fathers till today.

[Jennifer]

whew!! Seems like this is a good discussion!! I'm glad, usually when I start a thread only 1 or 2 people respond. Makes me think I am the thread reaper!!

Anyway, I'll address a few things:
To retdetsgt: you make excellent points, Soc. major! What the author appears to be saying, (at least in my interpretation of what he is saying), is that criminals are criminals and therefore their behavior and thinking is directed to satisfying themselves. At the expense of others, very similar to what grumpyirishman and ChesCopPodz said. The author states that even as kids, criminals have choices. The reason why so many criminals have little or no education is not because of the school system itself, but because they are just not interested in learning or behaving. They are more interested in showing off, gaining respect from others, yes its about power. The power to manipulate others to get what you want. They are not excited about school, its not stimulating. The young criminal becomes a troublemaker in the classroom because he is bored. It boosts their egos when they get caught; indeed it seems to be about self-image.

These kids are by no means less intelligent but are perceived to be because they do poorly on standardized tests because they don't care to learn. If you don't pay attention and you don't learn something then when you are tested on it, you are not going to know it! Then because of the low test scores, they are placed in remedial courses, in which they do not actually belong!! This just feeds into their delinquency because now they are EXPECTED to do poorly!!
In regards to poor parenting. The author postulates that it is the child that intentionally goes against their parents, regardless of whether they are from the "ghetto" and are neglected or from the subs where everything is handed to them. The power struggles between parent(s) and their kids wears down the parents so much that in essence they give up. And are therefore perceived by professionals as uncaring, insufficient parents.

Let me point out that THESE ARE NOT MY VIEWS but is what the author is stating. Personally, I believe in the biopsychosocial model and the stress diathesis model. Acc. to the biopsychosocial model, all things affect a person: environment, genetics, emotions, relationships, etc. I personally never understood the whole nature vs. nurture debate because in my mind it is the combination of both. The stress diathesis model states that some individs are predetermined (perhaps chemically or neurologically) to certain things such as addiction and mental illness. This predisposition can be dormant until an extenuating event occurs. Ex: A young woman may be predetermined to PTSD but has never shown any symptoms until one day she is attacked. The attack or stressor activated her predisposing symptoms of PTSD. This has been used to explain why some women who are raped do not go on to dev. PTSD while others do.

Speaking of rape, yes without a doubt, retdetsgt is correct, as is anyone else for that matter, in stating that rape is not about sex but about power and control. Why else would someone rape an elderly person?? Its because that would be an easy, vulnerable target to control.
The author makes some good points and obviously I am only giving a snippet of what he is talking about. However, I do feel as though the author is ignoring other potential causes. He seems to focus on the anecdotal explanation of "well if it was THIS then everyone would do it." But choice alone, while I do feel is extremely important, is still not the only explanation either; other factors will play a role.

The sheriff made a big point about how the media played up Bundy as some sort of suave, confident, good looking guy. He said Bundy was none of those things. In prison, he was a little, meek guy with a limp wrist handshake. That pretty much describes a lot of murderers and rapists I've encountered over the years. They're only powerful when they are with someone much less powerful than them.

I agree with this last sentence.
And finally:

suzanne1020U.S. Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer
I am not talking about addicts alone here. That was just an example I used from work to indicate choice. Many of you have a lot of experience which often supersedes "book knowledge" so don't worry about an intelligent answer.
Well, at least sound like you know what you are talking about!!!

LOL...You're funny.

Thanks!! I try to be, even at my own expense!! Seriously, I believe a sense of humor is important and needed to have, esp. if you are involved with this or any serious type of work. It keeps you sane!!!

[suzanne1020U.S.]

Thanks!! I try to be, even at my own expense!! Seriously, I believe a sense of humor is important and needed to have, esp. if you are involved with this or any serious type of work. It keeps you sane!!!

I really applaud you, Jennifer :D
I know in my heart, the angels will be assisting you every step of the way in the work your doing. :D