Should women serve on Subs?

[txinvestigator1]

I think women should be required to serve on submarines..............serve sammiches to the crew!

[MPI1]

I agree completely. Equal training and equal standards means equal duty. It's fair and reasonable. But to say across the board that females (if they do receive equal training and are held to equal fitness/job standards) are not fit for duty simply because it's underwater seems unreasonable and unfair. If there's different/lesser standards, then of course that's a different issue. But as MObrien pointed out above, why would you neglect someone holding a position (male or female) if they are able to meet the required training/standards?

From what I understand it is because they do not have seperate berths/showers in a submarine, also the men down there would get REALLY frisky is my guess so you would have to deal with that can of worms. I agree they should be allow to serve on a sub, however ONLY if they are ready to bunk with the men, shower with the men, and do EVERYTHING the same as the men aboard because subs do not have the space to have seperate quarters for women.

[Rlong1985]

I don’t think US Sailors are going to rape there shipmates, or feel them up
( ADD THIS HERE: On a wide scale by all the men on the boat/ship. IN RESPONCE TO MPI1)

The consensual relationships is widely worried about between males and females on board naval vessels. On board a ship sleeping areas are not barracks; they are referred to as berths, berthing, and staterooms

[retdetsgt]

I don’t think US Sailors are going to rape there shipmates, or feel them up.

Actually, last year I was watching some show on the Discovery channel or such about an Aircraft Carrier. I think they were docked in Japan and a 1st Class felt up a woman 3rd Class when he was drunk. I can't remember if they ended the show discussing a court martial or Captain's Mast, but it was ugly. That guy just tossed his career away.

But I could definitely see a problem with consensual relationships. I've seen problems it's caused on the police dept. and we weren't all confined to a ship or boat.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I wish I could find the article, but I can't. If I find it I will post it here. It quoted a retired submariner who talked about all the issues with close proximity aboard a sub. Passing each other in the passageways, even having your back to the bulkhead bodies can touch. Climing in and around the vessel, over and under each other in some of these areas all put people in abnormally precarious positions. With the modern climate as it relates to sexual harassment claims, stand by to see them go through the roof.

Of course you'll have the rare occasion where someone gets knocked up just to get out of the can when they can't take being cooped up any longer. Are the corpmen going to be handing out condoms? Wouldn't that be saying it's ok for having sex aboard the vessel? Or should they not be available and risk passing around STD's aboard?

The spouses, boyfriends & girlfriends are in a tizzy right now as well. Absence doesn't always make the heart grow fonder. You can't close the hatch, lock it down and then tell everyone aboard to NOT be human anymore.

[retdetsgt]

Of course you'll have the rare occasion where someone gets knocked up just to get out of the can when they can't take being cooped up any longer. Are the corpmen going to be handing out condoms? Wouldn't that be saying it's ok for having sex aboard the vessel? Or should they not be available and risk passing around STD's aboard?

I've never been on board a sub except for an old WWII parked here as a museum. Would anyone be able to find enough privacy to have sex on one?

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I've never been on board a sub except for an old WWII parked here as a museum. Would anyone be able to find enough privacy to have sex on one?

People are creative. When watches are at a minimum there are parts of the vessel that may be vacant. Remember there doesn't have to be a lot of room and you don't need a lot of time.

ETA: I know I "sank" myself with that last sentence... Sarge is prepared for the inevitable backlash.

[retdetsgt]

you don't need a lot of time.

Did you write that part or did Mrs. Slaughter?

[Sgt. Slaughter]

There is no Mrs. Slaughter anymore. I'll refrain from posting the reason, but it was not due to anything lacking in the bedroom thankyouverymuch!

Consequently, I am very disappointed that the AZ badge bunny thread got shut down so quickly. THANKS CITICOP!!!

[greg72982]

Did you write that part or did Mrs. Slaughter?

Dammit beat me to it. I would have used a different angle though.

Consequently, I am very disappointed that the AZ badge bunny thread got shut down so quickly. THANKS CITICOP!!!

Me too I would have had fun with that one...

[Kimble]

I don’t think US Sailors are going to rape there shipmates, or feel them up.

You have no idea what you're talking about, kid. Sailors are human, and they are not exempt to committing crimes and other sins that other humans commit by simple virtue of the fact that they're in the military and serving on active duty. Not trying to be rude to you, but I'm a criminal investigator for the Navy, and rapes happen all the time by sailors and against sailors. Some are bogus accusations, but a lot are not.

[Rlong1985]

From what I understand it is because they do not have seperate berths/showers in a submarine, also the men down there would get REALLY frisky is my guess so you would have to deal with that can of worms...

I try not to post tired, but can’t say I stuck to that when I posted that. I am younger than most of you but mid twenties is not a kid unless you are old enough to be my father. The meaning of my original post appears to be too general from what I meant to convey. MPI1 stated that the men get really frisky; the vast majority of men do control their sexual urges until shore. As a surface sailor from a ship that included both male and females I have seen more relationships and pregnancy than rapes between crew members. Rape of course is a possibility amongst any gender; I am not naive enough to deny that it happens in the US Navy or in the military in general.

[Wolfman]

I don’t think US Sailors are going to rape there shipmates, or feel them up
( ADD THIS HERE: On a wide scale by all the men on the boat/ship. IN RESPONCE TO MPI1)

The consensual relationships is widely worried about between males and females on board naval vessels. On board a ship sleeping areas are not barracks; they are referred to as berths, berthing, and staterooms

It definitely happens - military personnel are human too - including the worst of human kind - criminals like rapists, child molesters, and gang members, look at #1 on the NCIS Most Wanted (Pages - WantedFugitives), he's a rapist.

[charlydevo]

Having served four years on a fast attack submarine, I can say that gender integration will be a miserable failure. There is absolutely NO privacy on the boat. Having woman around will make the men feel very uncomfortable.

[Trip]

I don’t think US Sailors are going to rape there shipmates, or feel them up
( ADD THIS HERE: On a wide scale by all the men on the boat/ship. IN RESPONCE TO MPI1)

The consensual relationships is widely worried about between males and females on board naval vessels. On board a ship sleeping areas are not barracks; they are referred to as berths, berthing, and staterooms

Actually, last year I was watching some show on the Discovery channel or such about an Aircraft Carrier. I think they were docked in Japan and a 1st Class felt up a woman 3rd Class when he was drunk. I can't remember if they ended the show discussing a court martial or Captain's Mast, but it was ugly. That guy just tossed his career away.

But I could definitely see a problem with consensual relationships. I've seen problems it's caused on the police dept. and we weren't all confined to a ship or boat.

People are creative. When watches are at a minimum there are parts of the vessel that may be vacant. Remember there doesn't have to be a lot of room and you don't need a lot of time.

ETA: I know I "sank" myself with that last sentence... Sarge is prepared for the inevitable backlash.

You have no idea what you're talking about, kid. Sailors are human, and they are not exempt to committing crimes and other sins that other humans commit by simple virtue of the fact that they're in the military and serving on active duty. Not trying to be rude to you, but I'm a criminal investigator for the Navy, and rapes happen all the time by sailors and against sailors. Some are bogus accusations, but a lot are not.

I try not to post tired, but can’t say I stuck to that when I posted that. I am younger than most of you but mid twenties is not a kid unless you are old enough to be my father. The meaning of my original post appears to be too general from what I meant to convey. MPI1 stated that the men get really frisky; the vast majority of men do control their sexual urges until shore. As a surface sailor from a ship that included both male and females I have seen more relationships and pregnancy than rapes between crew members. Rape of course is a possibility amongst any gender; I am not naive enough to deny that it happens in the US Navy or in the military in general.

Having served four years on a fast attack submarine, I can say that gender integration will be a miserable failure. There is absolutely NO privacy on the boat. Having woman around will make the men feel very uncomfortable.

Yep, RDS, that was probably the USS Kittyhawk out of Japan, which my youngest sister served on. Having listened to her stories and to the stories of my dad who was a merchant seaman for 40 years, I agree totally with charlydevo. I don't know what Navy Rlong is serving in, but it isn't even close to the one my sister and ex-husband served in.