Is the Army becoming a day camp?

[Curtcougar]

Does it seem to anyone else that the Army is becoming more or less a day camp. With this touchy, feely attitude? I was also reading a new memorandum put out that in basic training that shaved heads are no longer authorized, only flat tops. Also the training day will be from 0600 to 1900. Rest of the time is soldiers time. I am a soldier currently in Iraq, and I truly believe that if we had the soldiers of today fighting in WWII, the united states would have lost. What say you?

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Does it seem to anyone else that the Army is becoming more or less a day camp. With this touchy, feely attitude? I was also reading a new memorandum put out that in basic training that shaved heads are no longer authorized, only flat tops. Also the training day will be from 0600 to 1900. Rest of the time is soldiers time. I am a soldier currently in Iraq, and I truly believe that if we had the soldiers of today fighting in WWII, the united states would have lost. What say you?

I say, "Where is your intro thread?"

[Curtcougar]

Sorry, my introduction thread is up now.

[JoetheGI]

Same ****, different year buddy.

The military is constantly fluctuating from proficiency and toughness to poor training and limp wristed faggotry.

We were soft prior to WWII, got tough, and than slacked off again until...

Korea.

We toughened back up until the cease fire, and than, yup, softened up again till Nam.

Rinse, repeat.

The best we have EVER been, pound for pound, is post-Nam starting with the Reagan build up that ended the cold war. Decent sized force, well equipped, and highly trained. The end of the cold war put the Kabosh on that, and Clinton's limp wristed policies set the current liberal "touchy feely" bull**** standard.

Sadly, I thought our leadership under Bush would fix alot of that. I was wrong.

The "day camp" attitude is directly attributed to the gojillion support troops in our formation, and backstabbing bureaucratic careerists that cater to their weakness, including military and civilian elected leadership.

Again, same ****, different year...

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Does it seem to anyone else that the Army is becoming more or less a day camp. With this touchy, feely attitude? I was also reading a new memorandum put out that in basic training that shaved heads are no longer authorized, only flat tops. Also the training day will be from 0600 to 1900. Rest of the time is soldiers time. I am a soldier currently in Iraq, and I truly believe that if we had the soldiers of today fighting in WWII, the united states would have lost. What say you?

Let me begin by saying that I served as a United States Marine and haven't spent a single day in the Army. However...

While I enlisted during the first President Bush's term, due to DEP, I served my time when President Clinton held office. You'll find the military ebbs and flows with who's in power in the White House. Clinton cut military spending like it was cool. I got deployed to Qatar for a MPS exercise in 1995. The hotel the Air Force was staying in during the exercise (Yeah, I said hotel. Don't effing get me started...) had a HUGE banner in the lobby with Ayatollah Khomeini's picture on it because he was coming into town. This prompted me to ask where our fekkin' ammo was and I found out there were enough 5.56 rounds for everyone in-country to get 4 each if they were evenly disbursed. Also, it doesn't help when branches drop their standards to allow personnel to enter with multiple felonies and requiring waivers for all sorts of **** just to keep their numbers up.

As far as boot camp stuff, I really don't give a **** about which military haircut they have. Shaved heads require less maintenance which is a big reason why they do them and they're often seen as a "right of passage". Well, ****. So was having your *** kicked by your DI, but that tends to be highly frowned upon, now. Things change. Training from 0600-1900? I'm good with that. You get more **** done in a single day of boot camp than you probably will in a full week in garrison. After 1900, I imagine most people will be going off to get precious sleep. FYI - we had about 30 minutes of "personal time" daily during boot camp and about 4 hours on Sunday. We were told when to eat, **** and sleep. I don't think BCT is having a slumber party after 1900.

Well, unless you're in the Air Force...

[Clint]

Does it seem to anyone else that the Army is becoming more or less a day camp. With this touchy, feely attitude? I was also reading a new memorandum put out that in basic training that shaved heads are no longer authorized, only flat tops. Also the training day will be from 0600 to 1900. Rest of the time is soldiers time. I am a soldier currently in Iraq, and I truly believe that if we had the soldiers of today fighting in WWII, the united states would have lost. What say you?

Whats your point???? The soldiers of yesterday & today are the same, it's the senior leadership that is "SPINE-LESS!!!! Not to mention the current administration. Our troops are in a "No-Win" situation. You don't go to war if your intention is not to win????

[Silver Fox]

Does it seem to anyone else that the Army is becoming more or less a day camp. With this touchy, feely attitude? I was also reading a new memorandum put out that in basic training that shaved heads are no longer authorized, only flat tops. Also the training day will be from 0600 to 1900. Rest of the time is soldiers time. I am a soldier currently in Iraq, and I truly believe that if we had the soldiers of today fighting in WWII, the united states would have lost. What say you?

We would have won WW-2 regardless of anything that stood in our path.
The length of a man's hair, whether he's bald or wears tresses down to his
shoulders has nothing to do with his fighting ability.
It's a thing called determination and what's in a military man's heart, soul and mind that really counts.

[Coastie 585]

It's a thing called determination and what's in a military man's heart, soul and mind that really counts.

Right on brother, right on.

[clark7]

It's a thing called determination and what's in a military man's heart, soul and mind that really counts.

Yes, and it's sad that constitution is sadly lacking in many of our fighting men and women today.

[retdetsgt]

Yes, and it's sad that constitution is sadly lacking in many of our fighting men and women today.

Oh, bull****.

People are people. The DNA hasn't changed that much in centuries. You can still take young men between the ages of 16 and about 25 and teach them to be killers. It's part of their primal makeup.

I enlisted in the Army in July 1964, a month before the Gulf of Tonkin incident. At that time, the Army was pushing the idea of learning a trade. I had an MIP alcohol when I was 17 and damn near didn't get in. Jump ahead a few years and they are drafting people with all sorts of criminal records.

I was in Vietnam before the idea of it got so sour and I'm glad. There was no fragging of officers and NCO's and people were still doing their best to do their job. After a few years, it went to hell.

As JoetheGI says, it all fluctuates with the training and the world situation. After 9-11, there was a surge of people enlisting to protect our country. Now it's all getting bogged down, but if we come under direct threat again, the young people of this country will step up to the plate like they have since 1776. A blanket statement like that is ignorant of the history of the USA.

[retdetsgt]

As far as boot camp stuff, I really don't give a **** about which military haircut they have. Shaved heads require less maintenance which is a big reason why they do them and they're often seen as a "right of passage". Well, ****. So was having your *** kicked by your DI, but that tends to be highly frowned upon, now. Things change. Training from 0600-1900? I'm good with that. You get more **** done in a single day of boot camp than you probably will in a full week in garrison. After 1900, I imagine most people will be going off to get precious sleep. FYI - we had about 30 minutes of "personal time" daily during boot camp and about 4 hours on Sunday. We were told when to eat, **** and sleep. I don't think BCT is having a slumber party after 1900.

Well, unless you're in the Air Force...

Even in 1964, my head wasn't shaved, but the haircut was a close crewcut. Actually, I didn't mind at all, it was easier to care for and cooler in the LA. heat.

It's been so long that I don't recall when the training day ended, but I know we couldn't lay down in our bunks until lights out. I guess they were afraid we'd get too much sleep or something..... But we used the time to clean the barracks, shine shoes, etc. Even if the time wasn't supervised, we had plenty to do. If you were really lucky, you had time to go take a long comfortable ****.... That was pure heaven.

[clark7]

Oh, bull****... A blanket statement like that is ignorant of the history of the USA.

Not bull****, I see it day in and day out. Are you still in, dealing with service members everyday? Dealing with the whiners, the crybabies and the people who generally can't hack it? I didn't think so.

While it's true that people today are capable of the same things they always have been, in TODAY'S military (Army especially), that constitution is not instilled in as many of our people as it should be. Yes, it's a fault of training and varies by unit/MOS/what have you... and "many" might not be quite correct. Sometimes I forget the ones I deal with everyday are the dirtbags that aren't out there getting the mission done and doing what's right. The bad apples polarize you to the good apples, so to speak.

Joe is right, the strength and size of our military has been cyclical. But, I doubt that ever before has the bottom half (quality wise) of our service membership been so overwhelmingly psychologically/emotionally unsuited for the rigors of military service. With the current culture of entitlement, its a wonder that there aren't more of our service members committing suicide or atrocious acts against each other, unable to cope with the strain and pressure.