differences between reserves and national guard

[studentcj]

I'm curious to know what are the differences between the reserves and guard and is the process the same in regards to enlisting. What are the pros and cons to joining and is it common to see officers who are in one or the other. My assumption is that people don't. Join for the money because the pay is very low but I look at it as the next best thing to go active so I'm curious as to how many people do a full 20

[Lawson]

Ive known quite a few officers that were in reserve components of various branches. Usually they were active duty then went reserve at the end of their enlistment.

[Switchback]

Ive known quite a few officers that were in reserve components of various branches. Usually they were active duty then went reserve at the end of their enlistment.

Being an active duty officer previously has no bearing on whether one goes to Reserves or the Guard. It depends more on what you are branched as an officer. It is my understanding that these days, most support MOSes/Branches are in the reserves, as opposed to the combat ones being in the National Guard. I could be wrong, but that is what I was told a while back.

[Lawson]

I was referring to "officers" in the law enforcement sense. I always get confused in this section.

[tanksoldier]

The National Guard and the Reserve are collectively known as "reserve component". They both are reserve elements of active federal forces, but the details differ.

The National Guard consists of that portion of a state's militia for which the Federal government has agreed to provide funding, training and equipment. In return the State agrees to make those forces available as a reserve to the Army or Air Force. Many states have militia forces which are NOT funded by the fedgov and which are NOT reserves of the Army or AF and cannot be called up by the fedgov.

Unless and until called up by the feds a National Guard unit is a state militia unit. Their chain of command stops with the governor of the state. All reserve component combat units are currently in the National Guard, due to a perception that States have a Constitutional right to posses their own combat forces separate from those of the fedgov. National Guard personnel have two ranks, their state rank and their federally recognized rank. Both are usually the same, and when there IS a difference it usually involves commissioned officers.

The Reserves (USAR, USAFR, USNR) are purely federal forces. Their chain of command stops with the President. They consist mostly of support units and training formations, tho since there are no "National Guard" naval units the USNR does possess combatant vessels... tho some states do have Naval Militias not funded with fed $$.

The only practical difference between the two unless you reach high rank is that the Guard is often called up by state authorities for natural disasters and such. It is possible but more difficult to call up Reserve forces for that sort of thing. So the Guard sometimes gets short state deployments in addition to their federal callup deployments.

If you join either you almost certainly WILL deploy., Everybody is getting boots on the ground these days.

[studentcj]

The National Guard and the Reserve are collectively known as "reserve component". They both are reserve elements of active federal forces, but the details differ.

The National Guard consists of that portion of a state's militia for which the Federal government has agreed to provide funding, training and equipment. In return the State agrees to make those forces available as a reserve to the Army or Air Force. Many states have militia forces which are NOT funded by the fedgov and which are NOT reserves of the Army or AF and cannot be called up by the fedgov.

Unless and until called up by the feds a National Guard unit is a state militia unit. Their chain of command stops with the governor of the state. All reserve component combat units are currently in the National Guard, due to a perception that States have a Constitutional right to posses their own combat forces separate from those of the fedgov. National Guard personnel have two ranks, their state rank and their federally recognized rank. Both are usually the same, and when there IS a difference it usually involves commissioned officers.

The Reserves (USAR, USAFR, USNR) are purely federal forces. Their chain of command stops with the President. They consist mostly of support units and training formations, tho since there are no "National Guard" naval units the USNR does possess combatant vessels... tho some states do have Naval Militias not funded with fed $$.

The only practical difference between the two unless you reach high rank is that the Guard is often called up by state authorities for natural disasters and such. It is possible but more difficult to call up Reserve forces for that sort of thing. So the Guard sometimes gets short state deployments in addition to their federal callup deployments.

If you join either you almost certainly WILL deploy., Everybody is getting boots on the ground these days.

thanks for the info, so if one was to join the AF and the options was national guard or reserves, which would you recommend. I mean besides the guard working for the state, is there really no difference. Is the training still a weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer or whatever. Also, is there a difference in pay, and how do you find out the salary for each one. I already have my degree, but since it isn't a technical degree Ive been told that I have no chance in getting accepted into officer school. I just thought it was best to join before i get hired by a police department, because once that happens I doubt they would give me the leave to do basic and AIT, seeing as how much time I would have to take off from work. I was considering the navy but i can't swim.

[Switchback]

For the most part, the training will be the same. Most reserve component training willbe in schools where you are side-by-side with your active duty counterparts. There are some Guard specific training that I am not sure the Reserves run, such as some MOS certifications that consist of an annual training (2 weeks) of MOS training, 12 drills of MOS training and then another AT. I was offered that for my 2nd MOS, but opted to go to the regular school instead. If I recall, Indiana ran there OCS that way, too.

There should be no difference between pay with Guard v. Reserves.

While you may get treated like crap, they have to give you time off for training.

Finally, you would not be the first squid that I know that can't swim.

[Lawson]

I would recommend you really find out how your reserve drills and AT will work, not all MOSs have 1wknd a month and 2wks a year. My friend's drill schedule was 1wknd a month and a longer AT like 3-4 weeks.

[Stub]

thanks for the info, so if one was to join the AF and the options was national guard or reserves, which would you recommend.

It depends on what you want to do and what that particular branch is offering.

Is the training still a weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer or whatever.

This depends on the unit you are attached to. Some units perform drills one weekend per month, and annual training (AT) two weeks per fiscal year. Some units will allow you to perform your drills and AT at one continuous time, typically 36 days straight (24 drills days and 12 AT days). Some units offer a hybrid of the two examples provided above. Some units publish a schedule a year in advance, others do not.

Also, is there a difference in pay, and how do you find out the salary for each one.

While the pay is the same, some specialties promote faster, while some offer signing or annual bonuses. The best move you can make is to sit down with recruiters from each branch and learn what you are interested in and competitive for.

2009 Military Basic Pay tables:

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/mili...yPayTables.pdf

In addition to basic pay, military members often rate additional allowances. The most common are Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) and Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS). Allowances are tax-free.

I already have my degree, but since it isn't a technical degree Ive been told that I have no chance in getting accepted into officer school.

This is not true across the board. For example, the Marine Corps could care less if your degree is in computer science or criminal justice so long as you are able to demonstrate the potential to lead.

I just thought it was best to join before i get hired by a police department, because once that happens I doubt they would give me the leave to do basic and AIT, seeing as how much time I would have to take off from work.

Employees who complete military service are protected by Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA). Bottom line is you have job protection. That being said, not all employers are military-friendly.

USERRA

I was considering the navy but i can't swim.

Not a problem. You can learn how to swim.

[retdetsgt]

Also, guard units are generally combat units, e.g. infantry, artillery or armor. Reserves are support units. The Army reserve here is a training and medical unit. There are no AF reserve units here, but the Air Guard is a fighter group.

As others said, the pay is the same.

[tanksoldier]

thanks for the info, so if one was to join the AF and the options was national guard or reserves, which would you recommend. I mean besides the guard working for the state, is there really no difference.

Since you have a 4-year degree I would recommend looking at commissioned officer programs. In many states the Army Guard offers their own OCS program which you attend on drill weekends and during your AT as opposed to going to the Regular Army's OCS at Ft Benning. I'm not as familiar with the Air Guard side but I believe all potential AF officer have to attend the active AF's OTS. States don't have individual OTS schools. Reserve personnel HAVE to attend the regular OCS/OTS.

That's one of the technical differences: the State OCS grants you a STATE commission, then the feds "recognize" it. Reserve officers only get, or need, the federal commission.

If you want to fly Army also has a program called High School to Flight School. It's designed for HS grads with good math and science abilities. If you took enough math and science to get a 4-yr degree, even in a non-tech/sci field, you probably have enough of both to qualify. You get selected for Warrant Officer by a board from your local recruiting battalion, if selected you enlist, attend basic training, then go to Warrant Officer Candidate School at Ft Rucker. If you pass that you then attend flight school and become an Army pilot. This program is open to all 3 components of the Army: Regular, Guard and Reserve.

There is also an OCS enlistment option. Again you have a board. If selected you enlist, attend basic training then go to OCS at Benning, if you pass you go to your Officer Basic Course. Again, all 3 components have this enlistment option. Most states don't have an enlistment option for their State OCS, you have to enlist then convince your unit to send you or otherwise apply.

The good thing about these two options is that if you aren't selected you don't enlist. The bad thing is that recruiters usually hate dealing with the extra paperwork. They will usually tell you to enlist then apply for OCS/WOCS... which can be done, but you might not get it. Also if you wash out you'll still be in the military, but doing something else not as fun... so don't wash out.

If you're going to ENLIST in either the AF or Army Guard or Reserve, pick whichever has the job you want available nearby. If you do the full 20 you'll end up switching units around to find your next promotion but to start off pick a job you want in a nearby unit. Remember that units have other jobs than just what that unit does: MPs have Military Police, but they also have personnel clerks, armorers, chem warfare guys, medics, etc. Same with everything else... infantry units have more than JUST infantry, maintenance units have more than just mechanics. At the enlisted level the difference between Guard and Reserve is virtually non-existent.

[Curtcougar]

Im going to add some stuff here that people missed.
-There are big differences between the National Guard and Reserves. National Guard is state ran (title 32) and reserves are Federal (title 10). The reserves are call up strictly for foreign duties. That National Guard are called up for foreign duties as we as, state emergencies; i.e; Forest Fires, Floods, Earthquakes, Hurricans, Riots, etc. The National Guard is also the only authorized military force that could be called upon to conduct domestic military matters (use force against American Citizens.
-As far as training goes, both NG and Reserves are the same. Once wknd a month and two to three weeks annual training conducted once annually. National guard are paid under title 32 status by the state in which the serve, (unless under federal orders title 10) then they are paid by the federal govt. Reserves are paid by the federal govt.
-Going officer in the National Guard you have several options. You can go ROTC, which the military pays for your college, books, room and board, as well as living expenses. You must graduate with a 4 year degree, and commit to 4 years of service after graduation. You can get your commission threw a course in which you go on a monthly basis to officer candidate school in lue of drill. This usually takes two years to complete and you still do you annual training as well. You can go Fast Track, which is I believe a 6 week course in which you are sent to an Active duty post and this I have heard is worse than basic training. Or you can goto normal Officer Candidate School which is I believe 12 weeks.
-For Warrant officer, you must be enlisted and reach the grade of E-5, (in some cases E-4 and have a waiver). You must have completed PLDC or (now known as WLC Warrior Leadership course). You must put in a Warrant Officer packet and go before a board.
-As far as jobs go, both reserves and NG have a wide varity of jobs, from combat, to engineers, to mechanics, to MP's. Pretty much everything. Best option is to take your ASVAB's and see what you score and you can then find out what jobs you qualify for. Keep in mind that you must score a 110 on your ASVAB's to be an Officer or Warrant Officer, however you can take the test as many times as you like to get a better score.
-Also if you go National Guard and are looking for civilian work, there are a lot of technician jobs available which pay very well.

[puma2]

Let me preface my comments by saying that I was an active duty army officer, but I never served in the NG or reserves after my active duty time.

That said, from talking to NG and reserve officers I understand there are differences in how officers are promoted. The reserves work more like active duty: if you have good evaluations you will be promoted on a fairly consistent timeline. Some individuals get promoted a little faster or slower, but generally after X time in a certain rank, you get promoted.

The NG works differently: you get promoted into a specific slot which is for a specific rank. If you are a captain and there are no open major positions, you aren't getting promoted. Therefore promotions in the NG are less predictable; sometime you may get promoted faster or slower, depending on available positions.

Furthermore, the state NG systems are smaller and can be more political than the larger and more anonymous reserve system.

Anyone from the NG or reserves, please feel free to clarify, but this is my understanding.

Of course, since it is part time, I think it is more important to find a specialty (i.e. infantry, MP, intel, commo) and unit that you like, than worry about how soon you can make major.

[retdetsgt]

The NG works differently: you get promoted into a specific slot which is for a specific rank. If you are a captain and there are no open major positions, you aren't getting promoted. Therefore promotions in the NG are less predictable; sometime you may get promoted faster or slower, depending on available positions.

My short one year enlistment in the Army NG in the early 70's showed me that it takes less to be promoted in the NG. There are people who are colonels and generals who would have never reached that rank in the active Army. I don't know about the reserves. In fact, the commanding general of the Oregon ANG is a retired cop from my dept and is not even a pilot. There may be some, but I've never seen an AF general who wasn't wearing senior pilot wings.

One of the reasons I only did the one year "try one" and got out was because I had absolutely no confidence in the field grade officers I met. Very few had any active duty to speak of and most had fairly menial jobs in civilian life. The scariest thing I could think of would be to be deployed with those people.

I realize guard units from all over have done well in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I do know that before the first deployment, the ONG underwent nearly a year of training. That's far from being combat ready and nearly starting from scratch. I suspect that training the grunts wasn't nearly as hard as it was to train the senior NCO's and officers.

Again, I can't speak for reserves, but I suspect they are somewhat limited on promotions as the NG. The reason being, you can only have so many colonels, majors, captains, etc. in any one unit. And unlike the active military, you don't want to be transfered across the the country after being promoted. That takes away all the reasons someone would want to be in the reserves as opposed to being active.