Blackwater

[amhrinda]

Well, it's para-military. Either way, it's sad.
And, I'm glad I told them I wasn't iterested when
they talked with me in Afghanistan.

From Fox News:

Two men who claim to have worked for the security firm formerly known as Blackwater accused the company's founder and his employees of murder and other extraordinary criminal activities, according to anonymous affidavits filed in federal court this week.

The Nation magazine first reported Tuesday on the affidavits, which are part of a civil lawsuit filed on behalf of several Iraqis against the firm's founder, Erik Prince, and his employees for its alleged abuses in the country.

Taken together, the affidavits charge Blackwater founder Erik Prince with promoting "a culture of lawlessness" that included routine murderous violence against Iraqis, a wife-swapping sex ring, use of child prostitutes and weapons smuggling in bags of dog food.

Prince "encouraged employees to act in the company's financial interests at the expense of innocent human life," one of the affidavits filed Monday charged.

The two gave the affidavits as "John Doe 1" and "John Doe 2," citing fear of violent reprisals for making the accusations.

Prince resigned as president in March but he remains the firm's owner and chairman of its board of directors.

The firm, which changed its name to "Xe" earlier this year as part of a re-branding effort, issued a statement saying it would file a brief Aug. 17 in response "to the anonymous unsubstantiated and offensive assertions" made by informants.

The company trains military units from around the world, works for corporate clients and provided security for State Department officials in Iraq until May when the government declined to renew its contract. Its aviation service, Presidential Airways, is providing air security for diplomatic convoys into September.

Blackwater gained notoriety in March 2004 when four security guards working under contract with the company were killed. The men's bodies were mutilated and the charred remains were strung up on a bridge. Their families have sued Blackwater, alleging the contractors weren't properly equipped or trained for their mission.

The company's image was further damaged by the 2007 killings of 17 Iraqi civilians, which prompted an investigation by both U.S. and Iraqi authorities. The company denies any wrongdoing but it has became a lightning rod for Iraqi complaints about the behavior of Western security companies.

The informants say they provided the same affidavits to the Justice Department, which is prosecuting six former Blackwater contractors on manslaughter charges in relation to the September 2007 killings of the 17 Iraqis.

Doe 1, who identifies himself as a former Marine, said he witnessed "multiple incidents of Blackwater personnel intentionally using unnecessary, excessive and unjustified deadly force."

Doe 2, who says he worked for the firm for about four years, said Prince viewed himself as "a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." Prince intentionally sent mercenaries who shared his vision to Iraq "to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis," Doe 2 said.

He also accused Prince of failing to stop his contractors from using prostitutes, including children. He said many of Prince's top executives engaged in an ongoing wife-swapping sex ring that ultimately caused so many disputes among them that Prince ordered an investigation.

Doe 2 alleged that Prince and his employees have murdered at least one person who had cooperated or was planning to cooperate with federal authorities probing the company's activities.

He also said Prince's "management has personally threatened me with death and violence."

[Big_Montana]

From my days in the Military I always understood companies like blackwater to have been hired to do the things which would not be able to be directly traced back to the US Military and or the US government. most everyone who works for blackwater is x military, they are paid very very well to do things that would be expected of a MERCINARY company, make no mistake, it's not a security firm, they are Mercenaries, the only reason I can think of for one of the most powerful militaries in the world to hire mercs is to do those things which some may consider morally reprehensible, and or act on the type of intelligence that may save 1000 American lives by taking 19 people who may or may not be innocent. I’m not saying they're not guilty as hell, I’m just saying if you think you understand all the subtle dynamics of who these people are and why they do what they do from what you've read in the news, think about what has been written about you and your department in the news, and then the fact that you had all your facts at most times available to be brought into the light to defend you...the facts at play with people like Blackwater are not even close to being able to be brought into the light. Think stuff we can't even have our own Delta Forces do, that's some weird weird twisted stuff.

[amhrinda]

I agree BigSandy, they have a purpose. Mercenaries always have.
A lot of guys told me they used to be pretty damn high speed too.

But, an outfit like that, when you have a lot of business, you have to do a lot of hiring, and you end up with asshats that have no morals; and that leads to bigger issues.

[Switchback]

They USED to recruit almost exclusively from spec ops. The problem is, they spread themselves too thin for too long and the pool dried up. They started pulling guys with less experience that brought a whole lot less to the table.

When I was in Iraq in 06 I had the experience to work and routinely hang out with them. Our team tended to avoid them. While there were some very high-speed guys in their group (mostly the guys that did the tier 1 protection work and the air-ops guys), this was generally not the the guys we had to go out with. For this reason, we avoided rolling out of the wire with them whenever we could.

...to give you an idea of the experience level of a couple of their guys: 1 was a bail enforcement officer before getting picked up. Another guy was an MP for 3 years before getting hired by Blackwater.

As I said, there are a lot of good guys in there, but the management DOES need to get a better hold on the men and actually control them a bit. They useless act like cowboys all the time. For example, anyone who has EVER done anything in an armored vehicle knows that the last thing you want to do when there is a threat is to open the doors (we have gun-ports). The only time you open them in a hotzone is if the vehicle is disabled. Well, these idiots kept opening the doors when we were in these traffic circles in Afghanistan. They would lean out and point their guns at people to try and get them to back off (This is not a common practice in Afganistan, unlike having the 100m clearzone around us in Iraq). I had a few of them all confused when I asked them why they opened their doors. If their was a threat, why would you open your armored veicle up for a breach? If there was no threat, why point guns at people?

...I refused to go out with those cowboys again.

[kels]

With the current politics and the lack of faith I have
in the current administration, I will wait to pass judgement.

There are too many with agendas for me to take this at face values.

[amhrinda]

...I refused to go out with those cowboys again.

That was pretty much my experience with them in Afghanistan. Some of them were good to go, but the majority of them that we had didn't bring a lot to the table.

Luckily for me, when I was out on patrol, it was with other Marines, or Army. I only had to deal with them as they provided our security.

Switch, good on you for dealing with the door issue well. I did a lot of runs between Bagram and Kabul, and if someone had opened a door while I was driving, he never would have gone out with me again.

Out there, vehicles were far to close the majority of the time. I hated that

Kels: I agree with you on this. Like I said, a few of the guys we dealt with were good to go. Blackwater, by nature of the job, treads a thin line anyway. I see a distinct possibility of them being a scapegoat here, but time will tell.

[Norm357]

Taken together, the affidavits charge Blackwater founder Erik Prince with promoting "a culture of lawlessness" that included routine murderous violence against Iraqis, a wife-swapping sex ring, use of child prostitutes and weapons smuggling in bags of dog food.

Prince "encouraged employees to act in the company's financial interests at the expense of innocent human life," one of the affidavits filed Monday charged.

The two gave the affidavits as "John Doe 1" and "John Doe 2," citing fear of violent reprisals for making the accusations.

Allow me to be the first one to cry bull****.

[retdetsgt]

A friend of mine who was a Ranger in Vietnam and retired from my dept. went to Iraq with them. He stayed less than a month and came back. Not only were they irresponsible, but they were also blackmarketing weapons.

He had no use for any of them.

[Brendon]

Mercenaries are just that; mercenaries. For profit fighting, all the cowboy stuff. You can't expect good from all of 'em.

[TSOC357]

Real folks not using their real names in a lawsuit. I call BS on them

I worked with BW and have been to their training and had nothing but good things happen there.

Are there some bad apples out there? Yes. But, there are bad apples in LE as well.

I can go online and find stories about bad apples in local, state, and federal circles, including the "famed" USMS, DEA, and FAMS Service.

It is what it is.

[MyOwnNemesis]

Real folks not using their real names in a lawsuit. I call BS on them

I worked with BW and have been to their training and had nothing but good things happen there.

Are there some bad apples out there? Yes. But, there are bad apples in LE as well.

I can go online and find stories about bad apples in local, state, and federal circles, including the "famed" USMS, DEA, and FAMS Service.

It is what it is.

I agree 100%. Bad apples are everywhere. I have worked with several security contractors over the years and you see the good and the bad. It is pretty easy to make some poor decisions and the following poor decisions get even easier. Blackwater (Xe) has some great folks and I have had the pleasure of working with many of them, but lets face the facts. If you want the best of the best of the best, you can get them, then when the demand for more operators and huge competition makes the hiring pool smaller then you look for the the best , then the Ok, then the ...has a heartbeat. It comes down to numbers and availability vs. contract requirements. Alpha personalities replace solid command presence and leadership is difficult at best...control can become impossible and accountability another battle.

Private Military Contractor, Merc, Security Operator, call it what you like. It is a necessary tool in today's world and will not change. Corporations fuel the fire with the purchase of governments for private interest. Watch Africa while things are developing in DROC over the next year, a pragmatic may believe that mining, oil, and renewable energy will be controlled by AfriCom and security companies.

[retdetsgt]

Real folks not using their real names in a lawsuit. I call BS on them

I worked with BW and have been to their training and had nothing but good things happen there.

While I totally agree about people not using real names is BS and their training might be just dandy, I've talked to a number of Iraq veterans who weren't nearly as choked up about them as you are. One thing was their habit of pointing their guns at American soldiers as they drove by.:rolleyes: And as far as they're actions over there, I'll accept the word of my friend who I worked with over nearly 30 years. And there were a lot of complaints from other responsible sources, Switchback on this forum being one.

And of course you can find bad apples anywhere. That's a no brainer. But some organizations have cultures that stink too. Just like you can have entire police depts that are corrupt if they aren't held accountable.

And the primary problem with BW was a lack of accountability, they had little if any at all over there for several years. The Iraqi government couldn't touch them and even the American military really didn't have jurisdiction. That will create a wild west atmosphere if nothing else does.

As far as the lawsuit, the accusers will have to reveal themselves at some point if it goes to trial. And those particular charges do sound completely off the wall. No doubt they're trying to cash in on BW's sorry reputation.

[retdetsgt]

If you want the best of the best of the best, you can get them, then when the demand for more operators and huge competition makes the hiring pool smaller then you look for the the best , then the Ok, then the ...has a heartbeat. It comes down to numbers and availability vs. contract requirements. Alpha personalities replace solid command presence and leadership is difficult at best...control can become impossible and accountability another battle.

Well said. And the only person a private security force is accountable to is some CEO sitting in an office in South Carolina, that will always be a recipe for disaster.

I've seen first hand how even military and police divisions can go rogue if no one is holding them accountable. And firms like BW are perfect scenarios for that to happen.

[Switchback]

Real folks not using their real names in a lawsuit. I call BS on them

I worked with BW and have been to their training and had nothing but good things happen there.

Are there some bad apples out there? Yes. But, there are bad apples in LE as well.

I can go online and find stories about bad apples in local, state, and federal circles, including the "famed" USMS, DEA, and FAMS Service.

It is what it is.

I like the use of "famed". At least, more often than not, our "fame" tends to come from positive interactions with society.

If you go back and read my post, I talk about there being real operators in BW. However, over the years, due to over extending themselves on operations and the length of time that they operate on these missions, the real operators are getting burned out and go off to do other things. While the less than desirable guys have nothing better to do. Compound that with a lack of management and you have a lot of reckless actions.

Those "real operators" that I refer to neither cam from bullsh1t jobs (they ARE the real deal), nor go seeking BS jobs after BW.