Females on SWAT

[JoetheGI]

EVERYONE knows that a bandit will not run as fast or fight as hard for an older female.

Double standards you say?

Been there, done that. Fortunately I have never had to work directly with any of the double standard crowd due to the nature of my assignments.

Armor, weapons and ammo don't care about gender when you have to carry them and move fast, far, or climb structures. Neither does the wounded. Either you can carry the weight and keep up, or you can't. Certain assignments need one standard for the safety of the teams involved.

Gender specific physical standards are dangerous imo, however, the people usually making those decisions are never the ones at risk.

[retdetsgt]

Don't get me started on the gender specific bull****.

When the city started hiring women as police officers in the early 70's, they panicked over the physical agility test and reduced it to nearly nothing. One really sad event was when one little bitty woman came to the range the first time and they found she didn't have enough hand strength to pull the trigger on a S&W .38 Spl. Seriously. What did they do? They added pulling the trigger on a revolver 6 times in 10 seconds.... What was really sad was she was also African American so they were afraid to fire her. Fortunately, she quit.

Of course men had to pass the same rigorous testing so we got some male winners too. We had a number of people who made me consider I still had no backup when they arrived. For several years, we hired people that were physically a bad joke. They finally put in a few things that required at least some upper body strength to pass. But the weaklings we hired were still there for the remainder. A lot of them immediately got their butts kicked as soon as they were put out on their own and started applying for drone jobs. The bad news is some went the promotion route.....

The kicker has always been that the agency has to prove that the test is occupationally relevant. That's why our SERT team has been able to continue to require the members to have good body strength.

Again, the state finally took over setting the standards so the weak willed city fathers didn't have to continue wringing their hands.

[Trip]

Double standards you say?

Armor, weapons and ammo don't care about gender when you have to carry them and move fast, far, or climb structures. Neither does the wounded. Either you can carry the weight and keep up, or you can't. Certain assignments need one standard for the safety of the teams involved.

Funny. I opened a post about five minutes ago and started typing something but then I got lazy and canceled it. Then I get to your post, Joe, and it's almost word-for-word. Only thing I'd add is there are assignments where it requires more brains than braun, and again, may the most qualified cop get assigned, regardless of physical characteristics. I'm really proud of my county- capability seems to be the prerequisite. My first responders always make me proud here.

[retdetsgt]

Unfortunately, political correctness has overridden common sense in some areas. More times than I count, I've seen gender and/or race count for more than ability to do the job.

Too many times in my department, I've watched totally incompetent people promoted or given assignments that were based entirely on one or the other. Affirmative Action numbers have always been more important that the mission. They don't even try to be subtle about it.

[Switchback]

...Only thing I'd add is there are assignments where it requires more brains than braun, and again, may the most qualified cop get assigned, regardless of physical characteristics...

The problem with this idea is that you have to do the "everyday job" to get to the special assignments. There should be a standard fitness requirement to do the job. ONLY THEN can one say, "may the most qualified cop get assigned".

Also, just because someone got a "cush" job, requiring more brains than braun does not preclude the person from being sent back to the street. If you are sworn, toting a gun and badge around, you should fall under the SINGLE REQUIRMENT required to do the job.

[Trip]

The problem with this idea is that you have to do the "everyday job" to get to the special assignments. There should be a standard fitness requirement to do the job. ONLY THEN can one say, "may the most qualified cop get assigned".

Also, just because someone got a "cush" job, requiring more brains than braun does not preclude the person from being sent back to the street. If you are sworn, toting a gun and badge around, you should fall under the SINGLE REQUIRMENT required to do the job.

Touche, Switch. Good point. I don't know what the innerworkings are of police organizations. I was just saying that as a member of the public, I want the most qualified people doing the job. Period. Same in the military. Same in the fire department. I don't know about the police force, but when I was in the military, PC sh** caught up with anyone who hid behind it. Perhaps it's useful for getting people in the door, but they had sure better excel pretty darn fast, at least in my experience. Same in the other things I've done.

[Trip]

Unfortunately, political correctness has overridden common sense in some areas. More times than I count, I've seen gender and/or race count for more than ability to do the job.

Too many times in my department, I've watched totally incompetent people promoted or given assignments that were based entirely on one or the other. Affirmative Action numbers have always been more important that the mission. They don't even try to be subtle about it.

Man, that would frustrate me, RDS :( What I run into in my work is major integrity issues, not PC issues. But listening to you folks...man, that would make blood shoot out of my eyes. Just like the way blood is shooting out of my eyes finding out these idiots wiki-leaked 92,000 classified records about Afghanistan here in DC. What ever happened to the charge of treason and a firing squad. And the idiots who put them on line should be thrown in jail. Man, does that make me see red. And then watching all these idiots who wouldn't have the first clue make comments about whether damage was done or not. I need a chill pill, lol.

[retdetsgt]

I don't know about the police force, but when I was in the military, PC sh** caught up with anyone who hid behind it. Perhaps it's useful for getting people in the door, but they had sure better excel pretty darn fast, at least in my experience. Same in the other things I've done.

Not where I worked.

Granted, some attempt was made to "bury" the worst ones where they would do the least damage, but they had to be pretty bad.

As a supervisor, it was horrible. If a white male was a screw up, I could deal with him with no fuss or muss. I could literally give him a warning or two take action. Not so with females especially. I had one woman detective who was horrible. I didn't know anything about her when she was assigned to me, but I learned quickly she didn't have a clue (no pun intended) about how to be a decent investigator. Not to mention she had the work ethic of a welfare recipient. I had enough documentation to the the president impeached and was still told to continue working with her to improve her performance. I finally got enough and she was transfered out, but to an even better assignment. The city was continually scared ****less of sexual discrimination suits.

We had some good women detectives, don't get me wrong. I had a couple working for and around me that were dynamite. And we had some pissy poor male detectives, but the males were held responsible for their screw ups, the women were rarely, if ever.

When I was a precinct cop, we had an officer of the month award. Well, the captain was concerned because a woman had never gotten it so he awarded to one. The citation said it was because she "read her report boards and kept her mail box clean". I'm serious. I felt sorry for her, it wasn't her fault, but so many people told the command to NEVER give them officer of the month that she was the last to ever get it. Up until then, it meant something, but no longer.

One year, instead of publicly posting the announcement for the lieutenant's exam with the date to sign up, they only mailed it out to women and minority sergeants with only an 8 hour sign up window. If you weren't female or a minority or one of the two told a white male sergeant about the sign up, none of us knew about it.

They still do that in hiring. Classes are offered to women and minority applicants to help them with the written test. If a white male asks about it, they are told about it, but they have to know they exist. They are not voluntarily told about them.

Like I said, don't get me started.

[Trip]

Not where I worked.

Granted, some attempt was made to "bury" the worst ones where they would do the least damage, but they had to be pretty bad.

As a supervisor, it was horrible. If a white male was a screw up, I could deal with him with no fuss or muss. I could literally give him a warning or two take action. Not so with females especially. I had one woman detective who was horrible. I didn't know anything about her when she was assigned to me, but I learned quickly she didn't have a clue (no pun intended) about how to be a decent investigator. Not to mention she had the work ethic of a welfare recipient. I had enough documentation to the the president impeached and was still told to continue working with her to improve her performance. I finally got enough and she was transfered out, but to an even better assignment. The city was continually scared ****less of sexual discrimination suits.

We had some good women detectives, don't get me wrong. I had a couple working for and around me that were dynamite. And we had some pissy poor male detectives, but the males were held responsible for their screw ups, the women were rarely, if ever.

When I was a precinct cop, we had an officer of the month award. Well, the captain was concerned because a woman had never gotten it so he awarded to one. The citation said it was because she "read her report boards and kept her mail box clean". I'm serious. I felt sorry for her, it wasn't her fault, but so many people told the command to NEVER give them officer of the month that she was the last to ever get it. Up until then, it meant something, but no longer.

One year, instead of publicly posting the announcement for the lieutenant's exam with the date to sign up, they only mailed it out to women and minority sergeants with only an 8 hour sign up window. If you weren't female or a minority or one of the two told a white male sergeant about the sign up, none of us knew about it.

They still do that in hiring. Classes are offered to women and minority applicants to help them with the written test. If a white male asks about it, they are told about it, but they have to know they exist. They are not voluntarily told about them.

Like I said, don't get me started.

OMG, RDS, if I lived in that world, I would die of spontaneous combustion. Luckily, I work around really competent, hard-working people; the ones I have problems with are the ones that just have no fricken courage or integrity.

[retdetsgt]

OMG, RDS, if I lived in that world, I would die of spontaneous combustion. Luckily, I work around really competent, hard-working people; the ones I have problems with are the ones that just have no fricken courage or integrity.

I finally got my bellyful too and my last assignment was non-supervisory. I worked as the only Hate Crimes investigator and pretty much isolated myself from all of that. Fortunately, I had no desire to go any higher in rank. To be a lieutenant would make me a bean counter and no longer a cop.

The problem here is, when I started the department was chauvinistic beyond belief. We had women cops, but they were members of a special unit called Women's Protective Division. It was formed in 1904 and the first women cops in the USA. It came about because of the Lewis and Clark Exposition held that year and we had a lot of runaway girls come here. When I came on, they still only worked with runaway girls.

They were paid the same, but women were required to have a degree and males were not. One woman sued to be allowed to transfer as a WPD Sgt to a precinct. She won that law suit and several more over the years. She did what needed to be done, but it made the city horribly gunshy to this day about discrimination suits. They routinely cave in to the silliest allegations now and overreact.

And the numbers all important now. They will do anything and I mean anything to keep the AA numbers up.

[Trip]

[QUOTE=retdetsgt;1098540] They routinely cave in to the silliest allegations now and overreact.

QUOTE]

As a manager, I routinely DON'T cave in to silly **** or numbers or games...therefore even though I'm a hard ***, my subordinates always like working for me, or at least respect me.....but I'm always in trouble with certain folks above me. Always. I am always pushing the envelope, and I've gone too far a number of times in my life. But it's ok, I really like myself when I look in the mirror, lol. And I'm not talking about anything physical. Luckily I also have very marketable skills and no dependents, so it barely even phases me. (Although the other "unmentionable" night was a bit of an exception, lol.)

[Cat_Doc]

We have a female on our SWAT team. She is reportedly tough as nails. I don't know for sure because I have never talked to her. Every time I see her she looks like she is ready to rip someone's neck off and crap down their neck hole so I stay my distance. By the way, it is also rumored she often out performs and out shoots most of the male members during training. (I think she is a fur trader, but to each their own.)

[Trip]

We have a female on our SWAT team. She is reportedly tough as nails. I don't know for sure because I have never talked to her. Every time I see her she looks like she is ready to rip someone's neck off and crap down their neck hole so I stay my distance. By the way, it is also rumored she often out performs and out shoots most of the male members during training. (I think she is a fur trader, but to each their own.)

You're such a feminist, Chief, LOL....good for you, lol....

[Cat_Doc]

Moi?

[retdetsgt]

You're such a feminist, Chief, LOL....good for you, lol....

Not to mention an old fashioned romantic!

As I said in an earlier post, I'm pretty sure the two on ours (one now) are on steroids. They don't look even close to normal. Either one could hunt bear with a jar of honey and a switch.

But for all the reasons I mentioned, the city would never make them take a pee test.