Seatbelt laws

[wisco]

My city has recently been running a "click-it-or-ticket" campaign. I can't count how many folks I know have recently gotten seatbelt tickets. The fine here is only $10, but I'd like to share my thoughts.

I think that seatbelt/helmet/etc laws are ridiculous. I do wear my seatbelt, but the fact remains it's my life I'm gambling with should I choose not to. I'm not harming anyone else. If you want to be stupid enough to drive around without seatbelts or helmets - fine. That's an issue for natural selection, NOT the state legislature.

I am absolutely fed up with the government deciding what's "safe" for me. Examples:

Banning trans fats: Great. Now a lot of the foods I liked taste like crap. I'm perfectly healthy and watch what I eat. It's not my fault some fat sow can't stop stuffing his face while demanding action from the government so he doesn't look like a whale.

Smoking bans: Just took effect here in Wisconsin - even in the bars. Complete BS. Many bars are flat out ignoring it. If I own the property I will do with it as I please. Don't like smoke? DON'T COME TO MY BAR. Is it really that hard to figure out?

Health care bill: Don't even get me started.


I am intelligent adult capable of making my own decisions, and also enduring the consequences of those decisions. I'm tired of the gov't thinking I need my hand held - seatbelts included.

[Cat_Doc]

I can't disagree with a lot of what you wrote because I also think government has gone way overboard on us. But, how about infants and children being seat/chair restrained? Do we allow the parents to make the decision on that one?

[wisco]

But, how about infants and children being seat/chair restrained? Do we allow the parents to make the decision on that one?

No. You know as well as I do there are some real bonehead parents out there that could probably give a rip if their kids were riding on the roof.

That being said the gov't HAS determined that the age of responsibility is 18. That is something I agree with. Certainly there are laws needed to protect juveniles from themselves and/or the ignorance of others until they reach the age to make those decisions themselves.

Infants, for obvious reasons, are completely incapable of protecting themselves; and society has deemed that we need to take measures to protect them. We carry this burden until said child is no longer a child - at least in the legal sense of the word. Any modern day civilized society would and should do the same.

[Chef_Au]

WE have compulsary seatbelt laws here in Aust. I think it's a good thing. Given that a portion (and a large one) of our car registration goes to an accident insurance comiision to pay for people who are injured in Traffic Collisions, the more injuries, the higher the premium, the higher the car rego.

Also, as many of you are aware, and not just my HWP collegues, you become a human pinball unable to restrain yourself in a crash. Whats to stop YOU from injuring someone else in the car. Thats not their choice, it was yours.

I'm suprised people are so against measures that may just save lives??

[Reconciler]

Also, as many of you are aware, and not just my HWP collegues, you become a human pinball unable to restrain yourself in a crash. Whats to stop YOU from injuring someone else in the car. Thats not their choice, it was yours.

I'm suprised people are so against measures that may just save lives??

I have heard what you are saying about people becoming a projectile when they are not restrained. I'm not against measures being put in place that will save lives. But my question / concern is: where do you draw the line? How much can the government prohibit me from doing claiming its for the safety of society as a whole? I don't want a government that is going to micro-manage every aspect of my life.

All this socialist bullcrap that the "chosen one" and his fellow crooks are driving America toward is going to be the end of her as we know it. We need a government that is going to be hands off as much as possible. This cradle to the grave mentality is making a lot of Americans spoon-fed lazy bums.

Recently in NC it began illegal to txt and and drive. Will that law save lives...no doubt it will save some and I'm glad of that. But what's next? No more drinking milkshakes because it will distract, no more radios/cd players because they cause a distraction, or maybe even driving restrictions of some sort. Also in NC...a strict no smoking ban on where people can smoke has begun. What's next? Will they restrict what we can do in our own homes?

I am not against the government stepping in and doing things to make life safer. But I'm absolutely against the government stepping in and telling me I'm to stupid to run my own life so they are going to do it for me. Its all about our liberty as citizens of the United States and my fear is that as these laws start affecting more and more of our personal lives/choices we will wake up one day and there won't be anything left...the government quietly took it all away.

[PapaBear]

My city has recently been running a "click-it-or-ticket" campaign. I can't count how many folks I know have recently gotten seatbelt tickets. The fine here is only $10, but I'd like to share my thoughts.

I think that seatbelt/helmet/etc laws are ridiculous. I do wear my seatbelt, but the fact remains it's my life I'm gambling with should I choose not to. I'm not harming anyone else. If you want to be stupid enough to drive around without seatbelts or helmets - fine. That's an issue for natural selection, NOT the state legislature.

I am absolutely fed up with the government deciding what's "safe" for me. Examples:

Banning trans fats: Great. Now a lot of the foods I liked taste like crap. I'm perfectly healthy and watch what I eat. It's not my fault some fat sow can't stop stuffing his face while demanding action from the government so he doesn't look like a whale.

Smoking bans: Just took effect here in Wisconsin - even in the bars. Complete BS. Many bars are flat out ignoring it. If I own the property I will do with it as I please. Don't like smoke? DON'T COME TO MY BAR. Is it really that hard to figure out?

Health care bill: Don't even get me started.


I am intelligent adult capable of making my own decisions, and also enduring the consequences of those decisions. I'm tired of the gov't thinking I need my hand held - seatbelts included.

I am willing to bet that you are not old enough to remember when the seatbelt and helmet issues came about?

Your argument is sound, all sound!

You are doing nothing but echoing the debates that were raised in the 50s, 60s and 70s when helmets and seatbelts first made their appearance and were made mandatory. The facts are: Seatbelts and Motorcycle Helmets do save lives. So do strictly enforced speed laws, DUI laws, moving violations, etc.

You think you have a right to expose yourself in the manner you choose. Not so! You, as an individual, must comply with the laws of the land. Those laws were established by learned individuals who spent countless hours studying the effects of idiocy.

The argument you pose can be used for almost all laws: They cannot tell me how to act; so what if I don't have a horn? Why do I have to have mirrors? Why can't I drive as fast as I want? All deal with the ME factor. When the fact is, it is not about YOU, it is about the totality of the masses. It is the matter of financial loss and untold physical injury.

The masses desire, laws are enacted and you must comply.

Don't be so self absorbed. It is easy to comply and you might even enjoy your travels.

[wisco]

You think you have a right to expose yourself in the manner you choose. Not so! You, as an individual, must comply with the laws of the land. Those laws were established by learned individuals who spent countless hours studying the effects of idiocy.

I most certainly do. Is there a law telling me I can't jump off my roof? Nope. It'd be a dumb thing to do, but I can do it. Why? Because I'll only injure myself.

The argument you pose can be used for almost all laws: They cannot tell me how to act; so what if I don't have a horn? Why do I have to have mirrors? Why can't I drive as fast as I want? All deal with the ME factor. When the fact is, it is not about YOU, it is about the totality of the masses. It is the matter of financial loss and untold physical injury.

The masses desire, laws are enacted and you must comply.

Don't be so self absorbed. It is easy to comply and you might even enjoy your travels.

Horns are to warn other drivers. Mirrors are to see other drivers. Speeding delays reaction time and could cause injury to other drivers. How does another driver get hurt if I'm not wearing my seatbelt??

When it comes to MY personal safety it is all about ME. It's MY body and MY life, not the states. We have the right to liberty in this country and the definition of liberty is freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

Our state damn well knows this, which is why I think they keep the seatbelt fine so low. Who's gonna go to court over $10? Jump it up a couple hundred and let's see how long the law lasts.

As you can probably tell, I'm not one to comply. I've bucked the system several times over BS laws and won. And tell me, when did "the masses" desire a seatbelt law? I sure as heck don't remember voting on it...

Yes, seatbelts help save lives - that's why I wear one. But they are not some "invincibility strap". Just last year a very good friend of mine's sister and infant son were killed in a wreck. They were both killed on impact, while the driver who struck them was not wearing a seatbelt and walked away. (If you're wondering, no alcohol or drugs involved by either party... just icy Wisconsin roads and a tragic accident)

Call me self absorbed, all I'm interested in is preserving my liberty - whether for a benevolent or idiotic purpose.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

I most certainly do. Is there a law telling me I can't jump off my roof? Nope. It'd be a dumb thing to do, but I can do it. Why? Because I'll only injure myself.

Attempting suicide is illegal. By your arguement, should it not be?

[wisco]

Attempting suicide is illegal. By your arguement, should it not be?

Who said I'm doing it to commit suicide? Maybe it's just how I get my kicks.

And attempting suicide is not illegal. First, I've never ever heard of someone being tried for attempting suicide. Second, if I succeed - how do you prosecute me?

[manahmanah]

So let me ask you this, do you have the right to put your life in undue jeopardy while you are still a parent, maybe even a sing parent raising children. If you kill yourself in a wreck because of not wearing a seatbelt, you don't think that is going to affect the lives of the children you leave behind?

[Cat_Doc]

And attempting suicide is not illegal. First, I've never ever heard of someone being tried for attempting suicide. Second, if I succeed - how do you prosecute me?

It's illegal in Arizona. I know of nobody that has been prosecuted for a successful attempt (sarcasm) but being illegal allows use of force by law enforcement or the medical field to prevent and detain.

Is suicide legal in Wisconsin? Can someone stand out in the street and shoot themselves in the head legally, or will government intervene? Is it a constitutionally protected right to kill yourself; and if government intervenes, do you have a good violation of civil rights claim?

I know this is venturing into the bizarre; but there ya go.

[Cat_Doc]

Wisco,

I have said it before, and I will reiterate. I have been in law enforcement for over three decades and I think there is too much government intervention. However, there are times when government is required to step in when people are so stupid that we have to intervene for the good of the general population .

I despise the gun control attempts in our nation, I despise utilizing law enforcement as a revenue generator for government entities that cannot, or will not, keep a budget under control. I despise idiotic codes like some that say a citizen cannot even smoke in their own backyard because the smoke may venture into a neighbor's yard. And, I really despise communistic HOA's!!!

But, we factually know that seat belts prevent some and decrease tons of injuries.

As a person who is forced to aggressively drive, and has investigated tons of motor vehicle crashes, I can also attest that a driver who is properly seat belted also has a better chance of control over their vehicle after a mishap, or while avoiding a mishap.

I believe in seat belts and have no problem with government telling you that you have to wear them if you are going to operate a motor vehicle on government provided roadways.

[ChevySSP]

Wisco I'd also like to point out in this day and age the liability of allowing people to make their own decisions and take responsibility for them is something nobody wants to bet on.


Is it too much government authority to impose seatbelt laws? I don't know, but I'd bet a pretty penny IF a state removed those laws then when the first crash occured where a seatbelt wasn't used and could have spared a life, then they would get the $hit sued out of them by the family.

We as cops would all like to think people took responsibility for their actions. And a lot would, until something bad happens. In which case they would immediately look to blame somebody else. It happens all the time and doesn't look like its going to stop any time soon.

As a society we are allowing the government and by extension corporations to micro manage our lives simply because as entities they are enacting policies and procedures that will enable them to survive. Its the reason why all restaraunts have to keep putting "careful-contains hot contents" on coffee cups, and its the reason why the feds passed the health law. Keep blaming the same things over and over and eventually those things start fighting back.

[retdetsgt]

I feel the same way about seat belt laws as I do helmet laws. If you can post enough money (not counting insurance) to cover the first 24 hours of intensive care in a hospital, go for it. You have every right in the world to be stupid, but you don't have the right to cost me more money via my insurance premiums.

I was working before seat belt laws and helmet laws. I've seen a lot of serious head injuries from both that the person would have probably walked away unscathed had they had a helmet or been wearing their seat belt. I assume most lived after weeks, if not months in the hospital and many no doubt were on some sort of welfare for the remainder of their lives.

If you want to risk your life or serious injury, I really couldn't care less as long as your stupidity doesn't cost me money down the line.

[SHH 1313]

If you can post enough money (not counting insurance) to cover the first 24 hours of intensive care in a hospital, go for it.

you don't have the right to cost me more money via my insurance premiums.

This is THE MOST LOGICAL ARGUMENT Anyone I have heard put forth ever on this subject!!

Good One !!!!