How do the police feel about being used as revenue agents?

[Curt581]

Police officers of every stripe have been accused, at one time or another, of being revenue agents since we began. What's different about this move?

Would it be better if we got rid of every type of fine, and instead started locking people up for everything?

I think the revenue accusations started when courts and judges thought it was better to charge offenders monetary fines instead of locking them into the wooden stocks in the town square. With the fines, there isn't any rotten vegetable mess to clean up, so that's a plus.

[greg72982]

Well as far as our town getting revenue, we only get half of the fine itself. If the fine itself is $25 plus costs (making a total fine of $109.50), we only get $12.50 of that. You would have to write a whole lot of tickets at that rate for a town to even be affected that much.

[retdetsgt]

In the mid 70's, the Oregon legislature raised the fines for traffic violations to ridiculous amounts in a blatant attempt to increase revenues. The traffic cossacks didn't slow down, of course, but the rest of us became a lot more reluctant to write someone a ticket for something like rolling through a stop sign that would cost people a disproportionate amount of money. Revenue from traffic fines actually decreased and they lowered the fines to still high, but more reasonable amounts.

That being said, I have no sympathy for anyone driving 15 mph over the speed limit. People talk about DUI's killing, more people die in speed related accidents than by drunk drivers. If a fine doesn't make a difference to one's wallet, what's the use in having fines? The whole idea is to have consequences for bad behavior.

[ChesCopPodz]

I only stop cars going 15mph or more over the limiit. If CO put a surcharge that high I'd simply write the ticket for 14mph over

[cntryboy0531]

No bones about it, Florida uses us as a revenue producer, and no, I don't like it. When the state increased the ticket fines recently, they flat out told the media and everyone else, it was to help shore up the budget. State gets the majority of fines. Our county just added a $15 additional surcharge for each citation. Busted tail light, even if fixed, will cost you about $100 in my county. Speeding 15 or more over will cost around $254ish, and 20-30 over will run you about $284 or so. 30-49 over goes up to over $500 on the second violation. for anything about 50mph (this doesnt bother me) is $1100 minimum, second is $2200 minimum, and 3rd violation is a felony.

A standard moving violation (i.e. careless driving) will run you now around $164. Non moving will be $114.

For stupid things, 15mph or more over, stupid moving violations that could get someone killed, I don't mind handing out the big fines. But, $100 for a fix it ticket to fix a busted headlight? Most of us don't write them anymore. I do if I'm looking to give someone a break if they have a more serious violation. Otherwise, we just warn and let go.

[retdetsgt]

No bones about it, Florida uses us as a revenue producer, and no, I don't like it. When the state increased the ticket fines recently, they flat out told the media and everyone else, it was to help shore up the budget. State gets the majority of fines. Our county just added a $15 additional surcharge for each citation. Busted tail light, even if fixed, will cost you about $100 in my county. Speeding 15 or more over will cost around $254ish, and 20-30 over will run you about $284 or so. 30-49 over goes up to over $500 on the second violation. for anything about 50mph (this doesnt bother me) is $1100 minimum, second is $2200 minimum, and 3rd violation is a felony.

A standard moving violation (i.e. careless driving) will run you now around $164. Non moving will be $114.

I have no problem with the moving violation fines you just quoted. You have to make it hurt some to change peoples' behaviors. I do disagree with high fines for nonmoving violations. That's way too much for a busted headlight.

A couple of years ago, I got nailed by photo radar for doing 45 in a 20 mph school zone. In my defense, it was an alternative school that consisted of some temporary buildings so it didn't look like a school. Not in my defense, I didn't see the sign that was clearly there. It cost me about $275 and I have no complaints. I shouldn't have had my head up my *** and the fine made sure I pay more attention in the future.

[cntryboy0531]

That would be about $568 here after the increased fine for a school zone.

I dont have a problem with the higher moving violations and such. the non-moving violations, I have an issue with personally. And most of us dont issue non-movers much anymore, unless we are looking to give someone a break, but still walk away with a ticket. Or, if it's a serious equipment violation.

[Norm357]

Police officers of every stripe have been accused, at one time or another, of being revenue agents since we began. What's different about this move?

Would it be better if we got rid of every type of fine, and instead started locking people up for everything?

I think the revenue accusations started when courts and judges thought it was better to charge offenders monetary fines instead of locking them into the wooden stocks in the town square. With the fines, there isn't any rotten vegetable mess to clean up, so that's a plus.

I didn't accuse the police of anything. I place the blame squarly on Gov Perdue.

[retdetsgt]

That would be about $568 here after the increased fine for a school zone.

That would make me even MORE careful!!!

And again, I totally agree about non movers. People are rarely killed or injured in accidents cause by broken tail lights or expired tags.....

[JoetheGI]

I never appreciated the enforcement of traffic laws until I lived over seas and was forced to drive in places that basically had no laws on the road.

It was like Mad Max out there I swear....

[grog18b]

We are only the "middle men". The violators are the ones that are volunteering their revenue. Stupidity costs money sometimes. Got problems with the fines? Don't violate the laws, or vote to change them.

[Curt581]

I didn't accuse the police of anything. I place the blame squarly on Gov Perdue.

Don't get your back up, Normy. Maybe I phrased it wrong by using the word "accused".... but even you have to admit, we really have been accused of being "revenue generators" for years. Even when we can show chapter and verse that we do not benefit, personally or by agency, from citations written. Hell, the amount the state 'shares' with us doesn't even begin to cover the costs of keeping us operating.

None of us have a say in setting deposit amounts. The legislature does that. They do not seek our input.

We don't get to add our two cents when a judge decides whether to go high or low within the fine amount range. He can even amend the charge to something else so the driver doesn't take an insurance hit. We don't get a say in that either.

What we could do, but I refuse to consider, is to be dissuaded from enforcing certain laws because someone thinks a fine is too high. I'm going to do my job, without regard to what a judge or the state decides a fine should be. If a speeder thinks the fines are too high, well... it wasn't MY foot on his gas pedal.

All that said, I think fine amounts aren't anywhere near high enough. Ya see, I think traffic cops need to be out there because we're the first responders to any road emergency. Since much of my work is on an urban expressway system, many of our firefighters, EMTs, etc wait until we get there to access the scene and find out where it is. I take great pride in extremely short response times to accidents, car fires, drunk driver enforcement, etc. I've had to perform CPR five times at accident scenes. I stopped a kid from bleeding to death when he went through a glass door. One of my coworkers delivered a baby. Another pulled a teenaged girl out of a burning car. Our very presence saves lives.

Unfortunately, it's expensive to keep us out there in any useful numbers. Who should pay for that? In large part, the taxpayers do... whether they actually use our roads or not. Why shouldn't the goofs and idiots who abuse their driving privilege pay a disportionately larger share of the costs to keep it safe?

Call it an Idiot Tax... and the best thing about it... it's voluntary, unlike all other taxes. Don't want to pay it? Don't speed.

[retdetsgt]

Call it an Idiot Tax... and the best thing about it... it's voluntary, unlike all other taxes. Don't want to pay it? Don't speed.

Truer words were never written on this forum.

[Buffboy]

In my state the misdemeanor(all movers) fines go to the schools districts. The court costs(higher than the fines) go to the courts and are divided up by them to themselves, the state, county and/or local governments. Petty fines(equipment violations) go to the county/municipal government, with court costs straight to the court to cover their expense.

If my sheriff office writes a ticket, the county gets a small percentage(less than 10%) of the court costs. I did some rough figuring, and I'd have to write 100, 15 over, speeding tickets an hour to equal my hourly wage + benefits + vehicle costs. As I've never gotten through a stop in less than 10 minutes, break even is not even remotely possible. I'm not going to try to "rough figure" the petty offense cash flow. As a revenue generator, it's a pretty poor one. If I stop you, it's because you are doing something stupid.

[retdetsgt]

In Oregon, municipal courts do get a fair chunk of the fine revenue. I don't know what the percentage is, but a couple of friends of mine were privy to a conversation between a local city manager and their appointed municipal judge. The judge was told in no uncertain terms to start raising revenue or he would be replaced. Apparently, the judge had been suspending or reducing fines much to the dismay of the bean counters.

Many small towns in Oregon post ridiculously low speed limits on rural annexations and then "encourage" traffic enforcement there. If it's not for revenue gathering, I don't know why else they do it. I tell anyone visiting here to watch for 45 mph speed signs near small towns here and obey them.

That's one of the things that bothers me about unpaid reserves. A lot of these towns use reserves to do that traffic enforcement so it's a win/win. The reserves get to dress up and play cop, the city isn't out any money and they have bucks from non-locals coming in to the city coffers.

When I was a young cop, there was a little town in E. Oregon was caught paying a percentage of the fines to their officers. When I was still working, the state came down on a little town in S. Oregon. They had about 200 yards of I-5 within their city limits and they would work radar on it, giving out tickets to people for like 5mph over. The state threatened to pull the department's certification and they knocked it off. What's obvious is the city disbanded their whole department afterwards which tells me why they existed in the first place. There must be gold somewhere in them thar hills....

That's what I appreciated about my department. Traffic enforcement was accident prevention oriented. We had a guy in traffic division who did nothing but decide where enforcement was to be concentrated based on accidents and citizen complaints. We don't have a municipal court, we use the state district court so we get squat from fine revenues.

People assigned to precincts were encouraged only to write enough tickets to show you were awake most of your shift. When I left uniform, if I wrote 5 moving violations a month, the Sgt was happy. That's not going to make anybody rich.