Do all police believe in free will?

[CitizenX]

2 different mindsets:

One you punish people because you think they deserve it, because they made a bad choice. (Free will)

Two, you punish people because you have to, because you cannot afford to allow them to keep doing what they are doing. Then you hope the person accepts that such behavior will always cause people to try and stop them, and thus they will stop doing it.

My problem with the first one is, what is free will? If someone makes a choice, you can always still ask them "Why did you do that?", and there is always an answer (regardless of if they tell you or not). There is also an answer for why they did that instead of something else. If there are reasons for why the choice was made, then where does free will fit in?

A more relevant look at Mindset one is to consider a suburban raised well adjusted citizen and a ghetto raised criminal. The citizen looks at the criminal and says "I made better choices with my life". But he also had more role models, more finacnial resources, a better enviornment etc.

[retdetsgt]

I doubt ALL police agree on anything.

Some people are products of their environment, some people are just plain mean and don't care about anyone else.

Your question is ridiculously simplistic.

[Curt581]

We don't punish people. We bring people before judges and juries, who then decide if what they did broke the law.

If so, the judge sentences them to whatever punishment is appropriate.

Let me know if this is too technical.

[CitizenX]

What about overcharging? If you charge someone with 6 offenses that basically describe the same event, or a felony charge for a situation that would typically be a misdameanor. The person may have to pay 5x the amount of bail, reside in the murder block till they get out (really a favor from what I hear but still)

Or deciding not to charge someone at all because they acted in a reasonable manner given the circumstances?

If I knew all police thought like you, I wouldn't have asked.

[retdetsgt]

Let me know if this is too technical.

Or just google nurture vs. nature. It's been debated for centuries.

[BJJVad]

Barricade punishes people..

[Curt581]

What about overcharging? If you charge someone with 6 offenses that basically describe the same event, or a felony charge for a situation that would typically be a misdameanor. The person may have to pay 5x the amount of bail, reside in the murder block till they get out (really a favor from what I hear but still)

Or deciding not to charge someone at all because they acted in a reasonable manner given the circumstances?

We don't decide that either. The Prosecuting Attorney decides what charges are issued.

[CitizenX]

We don't decide that either. The Prosecuting Attorney decides what charges are issued.

Oh well not where I live. The DA drops or changes charges or pleas if he doesn't think they are accurate, but you still have to pay bail based on what the officer charges you with, which he does in the heat of the moment. Also if the officer decides not to charge you, the DA never knows you exist.

[retdetsgt]

What about overcharging? If you charge someone with 6 offenses that basically describe the same event, or a felony charge for a situation that would typically be a misdameanor. The person may have to pay 5x the amount of bail, reside in the murder block till they get out (really a favor from what I hear but still)

Or deciding not to charge someone at all because they acted in a reasonable manner given the circumstances?

If I knew all police thought like you, I wouldn't have asked.

A cop isn't going to do that more than once or twice maximum. The DA's will come down on us if we initially overcharge people. After the initial arrest, the DA decides what the charges will be.

Police are a lot more reasonable people that you apparently think.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

Do all police believe in free will?

Do all criminal justice students?

Your argument is that because there are underlying reasons behind the choices people make that there really isn't 'free will'? Regardless of the reasons, a choice is still made. Some people, faced with overwhelming reasons to choose a certain way, will make the opposite choice, DESPITE that knowledge.

If you are familiar with Christian Thoelogy, free will is what caused Adam & Eve to be cast out of Eden, and it's been giving humanity hell ever since (so to speak). It is alive and well.

[retdetsgt]

Oh well not where I live. The DA drops or changes charges or pleas if he doesn't think they are accurate, but you still have to pay bail based on what the officer charges you with, which he does in the heat of the moment. Also if the officer decides not to charge you, the DA never knows you exist.

We have discretion, if that's what you mean. But someone who abuses it isn't going to be cop very long. And as I just posted, an officer isn't going to get away with routinely overcharging people they put in jail.

You really have a bone to pick with cops, don't you?

[CitizenX]

Do all criminal justice students?

Your argument is that because there are underlying reasons behind the choices people make that there really isn't 'free will'? Regardless of the reasons, a choice is still made. Some people, faced with overwhelming reasons to choose a certain way, will make the opposite choice, DESPITE that knowledge.

If you are familiar with Christian Thoelogy, free will is what caused Adam & Eve to be cast out of Eden, and it's been giving humanity hell ever since (so to speak). It is alive and well.

Well the argument is that you can always ask "Why did you choose that over the other option?" If there was no free will, it shouldn't even make sense to ask this question.

If someone does something unexpected, it might just mean that you didn't have a good idea of what to expect. It seems like intuition in that case drives us to ask "Why did you do that?" as if we know there is some reason for the person's behavior.

And sometimes the person isn't good at explaining why they didn't do the expected action, but still has a reason. For instance, a person who doesn't like authority because they think authority figures just want to be respected regardless of if they are right or wrong. And thus doesn't respond well to people who demand obedience without any attempt to explain why they should be obeyed other than "Might makes right".

I know a girl who is really bad at expressing herself (tested IQ of 75, speech problems) and is perceived as incapable, having behavior problems etc. But her behavior is all perfectly in line with the reasoning shown above, and she agrees with the above arguments and is persuaded by arguments that address them. Thus it seems her behavior is caused by her beliefs, which was caused by her experiences.

[greg72982]

I'm not sure what you mean by "overcharging." If the act fulfills the elements of the crime then you are charged with it, at least anywhere I've worked. Do some charges seem to overlap sometimes? Sure, but I don't write the laws.

[retdetsgt]

Well the argument is that you can always ask "Why did you choose that over the other option?" If there was no free will, it shouldn't even make sense to ask this question.

We make choices every few minutes. To say there is no free will is asinine.

My experience has been that people who continually make bad choices in their lives also blame others for all their problems. The fact they aren't introspective is the reason they continually find themselves in bad life situations.

These same people tend to rationalize and justify their bad choices and the examples you used are classic.

I have relatives that I've known all my life who grew up in the same circumstances as my brother and me. Although we had the same childhood environments, many of them have served prison time because they opted for the easy way to obtain what they wanted. They also are now in their 50's and 60's and still blame "the system" and others for their misfortunes.

[Samuel]

Just get to the point already...