Professional Courtesy - Texas

[Adrenolize]

Okay, I've searched the threads and I haven't found anything on this topic. Of course with this new format, I could have missed something.

So here we go..

I would like to get the skinny on what all think about Professional Courtesy. The concept seems to change by region of the country. When policing in NC, it was a must. You just did not ticket a cop. DWI was another issue, but minor infractions were always a pass. It was also common for an officer to call in favors with different agencies to help our friends and relatives, which wasn't looked down upon. I moved to TX where I worked for a small department. There, cops may or may not get ticketed and there was no slack for friends and family. I learned this quickly from a traffic officer who said that if he cut breaks for everyone who knew a cop, he wouldn't get anything done.

I'm applying for DPS, and if I get on, will be obviously doing the meet and great with a lot of people. I'm also anticipating some kind of question on an oral board, (I would ask it if on the board as it is a tough question). Any of the DPS guys that can chime in from their perspective would be greatly appreciated!

So, thoughts? PM me if you don't want to throw it on the forum.

[txinvestigator1]

The bottom line is that PC is for the discretion of the officer. To expect it or demand it is officious at best.

As far as your oral boards, we will not tell you how to answer those questions. ;)

[retdetsgt]

I moved to TX where I worked for a small department. There, cops may or may not get ticketed and there was no slack for friends and family. I learned this quickly from a traffic officer who said that if he cut breaks for everyone who knew a cop, he wouldn't get anything done.

Some of the most obnoxious, irritating people I've ever run into were friends and family of police. Personally, being related to or a friend of a cop doesn't mean much to me. I never wrote many tickets, but getting in my face about who you know was probably going to get them one. Besides, I've arrested enough police family members for serious crimes to not get terribly choked up about blood lines.

As far as "friends" of police, don't get me started. I had some ******* I met once at my wife's work Christmas party tell a cop that he was a good friend of mine. What was really bad was he had a 14 year old prostitute in the front seat of his car at the time. He got a personal visit from me at his home and in front of his wife for that one.

I never stopped many cops and the ones I did were generally for minor crap that I wouldn't have written anyone for anyway. But I never had the mindset that I would never do it. Anyone has the power to piss me off enough.

Small towns in Oregon are more likely to not give professional courtesy. One, the only thing many know is how to do effectively is write tickets and two, that's often a significant source of income for the town. A couple of people on my dept have been written by Oregon state police. But knowing them, I bet they were as obnoxious to the troopers as they were in the locker rooms...... Some people equate passing a civil service test with having impunity to what they want.

I was asked on my oral board if I would write my mother a speeding ticket. My answer was truthful, no way in hell..... I passed......

[phantasm]

There's cops who will never write another cop, and then there's cops who would write their own mother. Discretion is a powerful tool, and I personally will write summonses to a tiny percentage of the people I stop (under 5%).

[Adrenolize]

The bottom line is that PC is for the discretion of the officer. To expect it or demand it is officious at best.

As far as your oral boards, we will not tell you how to answer those questions. ;)

Oh, I have no doubt!

I'm all for officer's discretion, I just wanted to hear some opinions on the subject. Just because I have my mind made up on a topic, doesn't mean I won't continually re-evaluate and learn more. This topic is sensitive for me, as I had a Lt. order me to make things go away for a political buddy. I was effectively removed from any poster boy awards that year. I think that officer discretion is eroding with some of the laws out there forcing your hand. The family violence laws are a good example. Arrest has to happen no matter what? Anyway...another topic.

I'm really just looking for a feeling of what the mood is on the topic.

[retdetsgt]

This topic is sensitive for me, as I had a Lt. order me to make things go away for a political buddy. I was effectively removed from any poster boy awards that year. I think that officer discretion is eroding with some of the laws out there forcing your hand. The family violence laws are a good example. Arrest has to happen no matter what? Anyway...another topic.

Some people don't like it framed that way, but the truth is there's a fine line between courtesy and corruption.

I've been the recipient of professional courtesy a couple of times where I might have gotten a ticket had I not been a cop. And I appreciated it. But had I gotten the tickets, it wouldn't have been the end of the world either.

As far as professional or any other kind of courtesy on a DV call, forget it. If you're fighting with your spouse to the point the cops have to get called, you have more problems than professional courtesy is going to get you out of.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the brotherhood and that stuff. I always want to believe other cops are in the right. But no one was issued a halo with their badges. I've seen cops on my dept. fired and convicted of all sorts of crimes ranging from sex abuse, stealing drugs from dealers and street people to committing felony assaults on and off duty. I was willing to give a cop the benefit of the doubt to a point, but experience taught me to be very careful with that.

[dart9]

I believe in Professional Courtesy. As far as minor infractions go... and if you throw someone else's name out there, hoping that will get you out of a ticket, (if I was going to give a ticket anyway) I would tell them to have that officer contact me after giving them their citation.

I pulled over a "Big Wig" out of D.C. once.... I knew the judge would dismiss it (even though it was a writable offense), gave him a warning...

Once you get on with DPS and get to your duty station, you will know what your Sgt area will usually do as far as Professional Courtesy. It is usually the officer's discretion.

Now if I have pulled your butt over more than a few times for the same offense I have no pity for you (officer or not).

[retdetsgt]

About the time I started in 1970, a cop on my dept. wrote the wife of one of our US senators for some traffic violation. She or someone on his staff raised hell about it and the cop started taking a lot of heat for it. People in high places wanted him canned.

Then someone leaked it to the press and the public was not at all sympathetic to the senator's wife. The pressure came off the cop and the senator's staff suddenly wanted it all forgotten about.

[Curt581]

...

[HankB]

It's a good thing that I'm not copping now...I'd be in constant trouble!! I had a friend on Houston PD that would always call me when he had a new officer in training, and tell me when they were going to set up on the Eastex freeway. I'd blow by them in my unmarked doing about 100, and the chase was on!! Several miles and a boatload of adrenaline later, the poor rookie would wilt when he approached and saw my big gold badge...and his TO laughing his a$$ off!!

Lots o' fun at 2am!

[retdetsgt]

It's a good thing that I'm not copping now...I'd be in constant trouble!! I had a friend on Houston PD that would always call me when he had a new officer in training, and tell me when they were going to set up on the Eastex freeway. I'd blow by them in my unmarked doing about 100, and the chase was on!! Several miles and a boatload of adrenaline later, the poor rookie would wilt when he approached and saw my big gold badge...and his TO laughing his a$$ off!!

Lots o' fun at 2am!

If you did that to me even 30 years ago you'd be in cuffs in the back of my car. I never consider having to drive 100 mph funny any time of the day or night. If the kid crashed his car trying to catch you, he and his T.O. would both be dead.

A joke's a joke, driving 100 mph isn't.

[mobrien316]

When I was in patrol I pulled over a number of cops and I chose not to ticket them. I have been pulled over once since I've been on the job and the officer chose not to ticket me, but if he had given me a ticket I wouldn't have had the slightest problem with him. I was speeding and it is entirely my responsibility whatever happens.

I think it is, at best, disrespectful and at the worst corrupt for officers to demand the discretion to decide for themselves how to handle a traffic stop on another cop, but then to deny that same discretion to an officer stopping them.
If I'm doing something wrong and I get pulled over that is my responsibility, not the responsibility of the cop stopping me. I would never disrespect them by questioning their decision to do the job they were sworn to do by issuing me a ticket for doing something wrong.

As I see it, if I don't want to get a ticket then I should simply drive within the law. I don't think I'm above the law and if I get stopped and ticketed that's my problem, not the problem of the officer who stops me. I always chose not to ticket other officers because in law enforcement I believe there aren't any strangers, only friends you haven't met yet. But that's how I look at it, and other officers are as free to view it their way as I am to view it my way.

[Adrenolize]

When I moved to the TX department, my little family was just starting to go (1 kid present and 1 on the way) I took all the off duty I could get. The easiest to be had was selective enforcement (speeding and sea tbelts) on certain streets in the city. So I'm a week out of clearing FTO and I have the street leading to the PD. For a couple of hours. Every other car was some PD brass hauling *** in their POV.

At on point I catch MY captain. It was evening and I couldn't see who was operating the vehicles. I walked up and smiled and said, 'Jesus Captain! How am I to get anything done with all these distractions?!' I laughed and walked off and went back to what I was doing. In that one day I stopped like 10 fellow officers in 1.5 hours. I really was starting to think that they were checking up on me or something. That next day I had a lot of surprising apologies in the hall. I hadn't said a word to anyone else about what had happened. To me it wasn't any big thing.

All those guys were very nice, courteous and professional when stopped and I never forgot that. Let's just say that was a FAR cry from what I had experienced in a certain NC department. This is a major reason why I'm trying to go back to TX to get back on the job.

[PapaBear]

Professional Courtesy is a long gone term. Law enforcement has, for a long time now, been classified as a profession and not just a job. The professionalism is displayed in the courteous manner the officers perform their duties. Officers are given tools to perform their profession and among them are the ability to: 1. Make an arrest for an offense; 2. Issue a ticket/summons/citation for an offense; 3. Issue a notice to correct for mechanical defects or a written warning for an offense; 4. Issue a verbal warning for an offense. The use of these tools make the officer responsible for his/her personal performance and no supervisor or administrator has the right or authority to query an officer over the tools s/he has chosen to use; unless, there has been an egregious flaunting of the law or department policy. Ergo: if an officer opts to provide a verbal warning to ANYONE, that is his/her choice and a task has been performed.

By virtue of their severity, there are offenses that cannot be overlooked, covered up or ignored unless the officer doing so is willing to give up his position or authority, violate the law or expose him/herself to personal ridicule. In such an incident, the offender is the one who will be the recipient of negative exposure.

As a law enforcement officer one must be "...ever vigilant and enforce the law without fear or favor and, if necessary, lay down their own lives to protect the lives of the innocent and worthy..."

[JeffW]

30 years ago it was not unusual to take an officer who may have a bit to much to drink home. Don't think that you could get away with it today, but that may depend on the circumstances. Minor traffic stuff is usually left to descretion of the officer and still goes on most of the time. It just depends on the agency and the reason for the stop. Last time I was stopped another agency was having a problem with someone driving an unmarked car stopping people. 3:00am on the way home from a call-out, they stopped me. No problem. I thanked them for being alert and doing their job.