Tbta "police"

[overthehill377]

hello all
i am not here to start a new argument about tbta, just to set a few things that a member joey d stated about us straight.
i have been with several agencies since the mid 1970's, including the nyc housing police dept so i have a lot of experience with the transition from that point in time when police officers in nys were peace officers.
At that time peace officer status is what gave the power to make warrantless arrests, carry a firearm without a permit etc. Hence all titles in that sect were treated as police as they all had off duty arrest powers and could carry firearms 24/7.
in 1980 the omnibus peace officer bill added many other agencies and titles to this section who's agencies did not want their officers to have 24/7 arrest power and had to apply for a permit to carry a firearm, so a paragraph was added to many of the titles listed indicating they could not "buy, posess, carry etc. a firearm.
Those of us who were already in that sect. of the cpl but who were not moved to police status (due to our agencies not wanting us to have it) were left in the peace officer catagory with all the prior powers intact.
This includes tbta officer's, nyc deputy sheriffs, court officer's, parole officer's
probation officer's, and a few other's.
These officer's as well as tbta officer's can indeed make arrests off duty and carry a firearm throughout nys .
The legal dept of the MTA, our parent agency has deemed our geographical area of employment, to be all of NYS.
The statement about us not having a det division is correct, we do however have a special investigations division, a highway unit, a truck enforcement unit, we man a 24/7 command center, and are part of the Interagency Counter terrorism task force, we have personnel at OEM, an honor guard unit that attends services of MOS all over nys, we compete and have won at the police combat shooting events, and reciev daily reports BOLO'S and information from agencies all over NYS.
Members have made many felony arrests including one or two person's on the FBI's terrorism wanted list's, have made a single arrest taling over 1 million dollars worth of drug's off the street and members have been involved in several on duty shooting incident's.
There it is so you can make your own desicion, our title is not police officer and we don't bust down doors at 2am in bed stuy, but neither do the PAPD nor the MTAPD, who by the way does not patroll or respond to incident's on TBTA property.

[MyOwnNemesis]

Capitalization would help your statement - it causes your post to be lackluster, seemingly uneducated, and difficult to read. The oddity is the bulk of you post contains proper punctuation and grammar.

Then again - perhaps you have a problem with your keyboard.

Cheers

[Switchback]

I think he capitalized everything and the board removes it automatically.

Also, I have a hard time giving anyone credit when they start their very first post with something to the effect of, "I'm not trying to start an argument, but..."

[phantasm]

MTA already has police officers.

[Joeyd6]

hello all i am not here to start a new argument about tbta, just to set a few things that a member joey d stated about us straight.

Anyone who starts a sentence with that is always looking for a fight. But you seem to imply I made some false statements. I have not made any false or inaccurate statements about the TBTA nor do you seem to list any. But you sure did make some false statements about them so let me set you straight.

i have been with several agencies since the mid 1970's, including the nyc housing police dept so i have a lot of experience with the transition from that point in time when police officers in nys were peace officers. At that time peace officer status is what gave the power to make warrantless arrests, carry a firearm without a permit etc. Hence all titles in that sect were treated as police as they all had off duty arrest powers and could carry firearms 24/7.

So you get laid off from housing or leave by choice? I am curious. That aside though, here is where you start to go wrong. NY State law had no distinction between POLICE and PEACE Officers in the 1970's, yet there were the two titles found in government. As a result, everyone was treated the same and all gained their authority from the POLICE law (not the peace officer status you state).
Agencies were telling peace officers they could only do this yet the law of NY State said something different. There was then confusion between police officers during certain criminal cases they worked with peace officers. As a result, the Law Revision Commission was established in 1976, and they were tasked with separating the two and giving each distinct powers/roles/authorities.

in 1980 the omnibus peace officer bill added many other agencies and titles to this section who's agencies did not want their officers to have 24/7 arrest power and had to apply for a permit to carry a firearm, so a paragraph was added to many of the titles listed indicating they could not "buy, posess, carry etc. a firearm.

In 1980, the Law revision Commission established standards for Peace Officers. If you agency or any other appeared, that was because the AGENCY DID NOT WANT NOR DESIRE TO MEET THE STANDRADS FOR CERTIFIATION AS A POLICE AGENCY. The agency was not trying to control who had what powers, it was if they wanted to be a security based or police based organization and the need presented to that to the State Assembly for approval. The NY State Assembly has shot numerous attempts to make TBTA a police agency despite years of attempts. You can figure out why.

Those of us who were already in that sect. of the cpl but who were not moved to police status (due to our agencies not wanting us to have it) were left in the peace officer catagory with all the prior powers intact. This includes tbta officer's, nyc deputy sheriffs, court officer's, parole officer's, probation officer's, and a few other's. These officer's as well as tbta officer's can indeed make arrests off duty and carry a firearm throughout nys. The legal dept of the MTA, our parent agency has deemed our geographical area of employment, to be all of NYS.

Wrong. You were not changed to status because the TBTA did not have police authority granted to it by the State. And for a side note, the TBTA did not seek such till the late 90’s, almost 20 years after your so called getting the shaft. Add in that TBTA did not have full peace officer status until AFTER 9/11. However, NYC Sheriff, NYS Court Officers, Parole, Probation, NYC Fire Marshal, Animal Control, etc… were all part of the 1980 act.

As far as your jurisdiction, you better read up. You are misinformed. The NYS Criminal Procedure law defines it in 140.25, sub 5a, not the MTA Legal Division. And you are misquoting and/or interpreting such to imply you have full powers of arrest like a cop. You don’t. A peace officer of a state agency can NOT make a misdemeanor arrest unless they witnessed such when off-duty. A peace officer can arrest for a felony while off duty (witnessed or not) if they have reasonable cause the crime occurred. You can’t arrest for a misdemeanor unless you see it off duty, but Joe blow citizen can and make the citizens arrest! Same with cops who can make those arrests on and off duty. Moral of the story: you have limited powers off duty, let alone your agency policy prohibits action.

And the MTA has defined your special duty area (for on duty enforcement) as the facilities owned and operated by the TBTA, meaning the bridges and tunnels.

The statement about us not having a det division is correct, we do however have a special investigations division, a highway unit, a truck enforcement unit, we man a 24/7 command center, and are part of the Interagency Counter terrorism task force, we have personnel at OEM,

You special investigations unit is not a detective unit. They are essentially internal affairs, going after guys for misuse of power, and toll collectors stealing, etc…. Your highway unit is not out there doing the work a trooper or the NYPD Highway Unit or MTAPD Highway do. They drive over the bridge, run a little radar on the bridge, drive back the other way. Your truck enforcement unit is also weak at best, doing weight and log checks. Something every NYPD highway and state trooper does daily, while responding to 911 calls and other police work. Your 24/7 command center is that for all TBTA facilities which has to be open due to the toll booths and computers running 24/7. Your interagency participation is on the local level, and not the big boy field where the LEO’s are (aka- JTTF and USMSTF). And so what you have personnel at the city OEM. So does sanitation, and animal control, and the sewer authority, and utilities, etc…. It is a place for every agency in the city to send a body to act as a liaison when needed in an emergency. It’s called incident command and required under federal law.

an honor guard unit that attends services of MOS all over nys, we compete and have won at the police combat shooting events, and reciev daily reports BOLO'S and information from agencies all over NYS.

So does John Jay College Security Office. It is called living in a post 9/11 era where we all share info. That does not mean the John Jay CUNY security guard is a LEO. The Explores do all that too but they sure as hell are not LEO’s.

Members have made many felony arrests including one or two person's on the FBI's terrorism wanted list's, have made a single arrest taling over 1 million dollars worth of drug's off the street and members have been involved in several on duty shooting incident's.

Well considering you control the majority of bridge and tunnel crossings, which millions of drivers are forced to go through, I sure as hell hope you catch something. Your job is to make sure nobody gets through without paying a toll. Your secondary duties are to make sure the tunnel doesn’t get a hole blown in it and the bridge doesn’t fall apart because of a bomb and some drunk doesn’t hit the precious toll booth.

And let me help you figure it out more. LEO’s take care of each other and deal with the law. You folks are only concerned about the tolls. During the recent UN, I was in a dignitary motorcade doing protection. One vehicle in the procession had an e-zpass that for some reason, couldn’t be read through the bullet resistant glass. We go from Manhattan to the BBT and get to the Brooklyn side where our team leader lets your folks know that out of a few vehicles in the detail, one is having issues and to raise the arm. In a normal place with police officers who understand everything, the toll arm would have gone up and all cars waived through. Not with your bonehead agency. They refused and wanted the NYPD and NYSP and feds to come up with the cash for the toll or the car could not pass. You idiots stopped a group of local state and federal LEOS with a dignitary in a motorcade enroute in official government vehicles, endangering everyone’s life over $5.50, and then issued a pay by mail to the New York State Trooper in the motorcade with a $2 service fee. Your agency may want to be something it is not (aka- police), but you are toll collectors with guns.

There it is so you can make your own desicion, our title is not police officer and we don't bust down doors at 2am in bed stuy, but neither do the PAPD nor the MTAPD, who by the way does not patroll or respond to incident's on TBTA property.

Everyone knows in NYS there are peace officers and police officers. You folks are peace officers. And you obviously have no clue who or what the PAPD and MTAPD are or you sucked up too much CO2 at the tunnel entrance.
The PAPAD are POLICE officers and are often busting doors open, wrestling perps and fighting crime. They patrol the NY/NJ crossings, all of the ports (which are mostly on the NJ side) and the airports. They do patrol. They also do 911 runs, something your agency does not do. Call Newark PD, Elizabeth PD, 17th and other NYPD precincts and Jersey City PD. Ask how many times the PAPD is on scene there. It is a routine task. They are also on the JTTF (which TBTA is not) and on the US Marshals Task Force (no TBTA there either).
And the MTA PD are POLICE officers with dual state powers. Again on the JTTF and USMS Task Force. They do patrol and again are kicking in doors. Ask the NY and CT State Police if they are real cops. Anyone upstate knows how many 911 jobs they handle and how they practically work hand in hand with the NYSP and the CT State Police on their daily stops and 911 calls.
None of the agencies you mentioned have had their cops validating train tickets, checking boarding passes, collecting parking fees, etc….etc…. You folks, sure as hell end up in a toll booth taking coin when needed. You can’t be a LEO and a toll collector, however you can be a toll collector with a gun though!

You can spin it any way you want. TBTA are peace officers. State law says 35 hours of training to be a peace officer and 720 for a police. There is no comparison. TBTA is a security based quasi enforcement agency to handle headaches at the toll booths and move disabled cars along. You folks are nowhere to be found on your own agencies (MTA) website. The MTAPD are the police in the MTA, not you folks. I give more credit to the ASCPA, fire marshals and CUNY guys and girls who don’t brag and try to justify what they do and claim to be LEO’s. They do their job with pride and don’t cross that bridge (no pun intended). But the TBTA folks seem to pop up every six months on here and try to play “I am a law enforcement officer etc….” and the like. They get a dose of reality and leave.

If you want to discuss this further, come on over the RANT where you can hear the facts from a bunch of local guys, and not this place where you think you can try and get a sympathetic ear from a cop out west who does not understand the difference of peace vs. police here in NY. Fortunately for us NY’ers though, we have educated them well on such. We all know the TBTA are toll collectors with guns!

[MyOwnNemesis]

JoeyD - Well said. BTW - thank you for the education, I read your post and (unlike the Op) am walking away more intelligent.

[Piggy]

JoeyD - Well said. BTW - thank you for the education, I read your post and (unlike the Op) am walking away more intelligent.

What's TBTA anyway?

[phantasm]

What's TBTA anyway?

Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.

Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They handle IN state NYC crossings.

Port Authority handles the NY/NJ crossings (goethels, outerbridge crossing on SI/NJ, Holland, Lincoln Tunnels and George Washington Bridge on Manhattan/NJ).

PA also handles the port authority bus terminal, the world trade center, the area airports (newark, JFK, laguardia, etc) among other things.

Port Authority of New York and New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[smcc360]

If you want to be a cop, go somewhere and be a cop.

"We really, really, really are the police, for real!" just seems like more time and effort than it's worth.

[greg72982]

If you want to be a cop, go somewhere and be a cop.

"We really, really, really are the police, for real!" just seems like more time and effort than it's worth.

Sigh...you just don't understand.

[smcc360]

Sigh...you just don't understand.

I guess not.

But when I was a park cop, I didn't try to sell myself as a NYS Trooper. I can't imagine why anyone would care. Anyone on the Job would see through it, and anyone not on the Job wouldn't give a rat's ***.

[Cat_Doc]

But when I was a park cop, I didn't try to sell myself as a NYS Trooper.

Yep. Anyone can read a bunch of books about the Navy SEALS and convince some young wimmens at a bar that they were a SEAL.

However, they better not sit at a table with some real SEALs and try that. They will see right through them in a second flat.

[Lawson]

[Who Cares]

Capitalization would help your statement - it causes your post to be lackluster, seemingly uneducated, and difficult to read. The oddity is the bulk of you post contains proper punctuation and grammar.

Then again - perhaps you have a problem with your keyboard.

Cheers

I am a troll who wants to portray myself to be something I am not.

[patchcop]

YI am a troll who wants to portray myself to be something I am not.

And you have a bad mouth for your first post, but - who cares!