More Tickets in Hard Times

[greg72982]

This article is from car and driver apparently but I found it on MSN. I thought it may make for interesting discussion...

More Tickets in Hard Times
Cities searching for revenue look to their police departments as a way to cash in.

By George Hunter of Car and Driver

Motorists beware: In some communities, police are issuing tickets during these hard times at a rate higher than ever in what critics say is an attempt to raise revenue in order to offset budget shortfalls.

Take, for example, the metropolitan Detroit area, which has been reeling economically much longer than has the rest of the country. The number of moving violations issued has increased by at least 50 percent in 18 communities in the metro area since 2002 — and 11 of those municipalities have seen ticketing increases of 90 percent or more. During that time, Michigan has cut revenue sharing to communities by $3 billion. Officials are scrambling to balance their budgets amid the tumbling economy, and some people say the authorities are turning to traffic cops for help.

The president of a state police union isn't pretending it doesn't happen. James Tignanelli, president of the Police Officers Association of Michigan union, says, "When elected officials say, 'We need more money,' they can't look to the department of public works to raise revenues, so where do they find it? Police departments.

"A lot of police chiefs will tell you the goal is to have nobody speeding through their community, but heaven forbid if it should actually happen — they'd be out of money," Tignanelli says.

Police Chief Michael Reaves of Utica, Michigan, says the role of law enforcement has changed over the years. "When I first started in this job 30 years ago, police work was never about revenue enhancement, but if you're a chief now, you have to look at whether your department produces revenues," he says. "That's just the reality nowadays."

Motorists such as George Hilliard are outraged at the ramped-up traffic enforcement. Hilliard, a 49-year-old warehouse worker who's been laid off, says he got a ticket last year near his home in Dearborn Heights on a section of road where the speed limit drops suddenly from 45 to 35 mph. A few weeks later, his son got a ticket on the same stretch of road. A few weeks after that, according to Hilliard, his other son got a ticket in the same spot.

"The cops sit out there and pick people off, one by one," Hilliard says. "They're catching people left and right. There's a McDonald's right there, and they pull people in there all day. They'll give you a ticket for going five miles over the speed limit. They're making so much money off people, it's ridiculous." Driving 5 mph over the limit is a $90 ticket in Dearborn Heights and tacks two points onto the motorist's driving record.

Garrett TeWinkle of Seal Beach, California, was headed to a wedding in Ohio recently when he was given a speeding ticket in Taylor, a few miles from Detroit Metro Airport.

"I was astounded to get a speeding ticket," TeWinkle says. "Even my wife, who is my harshest critic, says there is no way I was driving as fast as the officer said. I hadn't had a ticket in years.

"I had been under the impression that Michigan was trying to promote tourism," TeWinkle says. "Great way to make a first impression — no wonder the state's economy is in the porcelain."

Kathleen Weckler of Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, feels the same way. Last year, on her 80th birthday, she was on her way to the dentist when a police officer in nearby Birmingham gave her a ticket for running a red light. Weckler insists she didn't run the light — "but you can't fight them. It's their word against yours," she says.

"I told one officer that I used to tell my children that police officers are their friend — but with the [ticket] quotas, they are not any more," Weckler says.

Some police officers, such as Sgt. Richard Lyons of Trenton, Michigan, say they don't like being pressured to write more tickets.

"That's not what I got into law enforcement for — to hand out chintzy tickets," says Lyons, a 21-year veteran. "Things have changed from when I first started in this job. There was a time when you'd come in, do your job, and go home.

But I've never felt pressure to bring revenue to the city like we do now.

"It's a whole different ball game now," Lyons says. "They're trying to use police officers to balance the budget on the backs of drivers, and it's too bad. The people we count on to support us and help us when we're on the road are the ones who end up paying the bills, and they're ticked off about it. We might as well just go door to door and tell people, 'Slide us $100 now since your 16-year-old is going to end up paying us anyway when he starts driving.' You can't blame people for getting upset."

Jack Walker of Flint was given two speeding tickets within a few weeks of each other last year while driving in Orion Township. He says police are more aggressive than ever about stopping motorists.

"It's getting ridiculous: Police are using us as their fundraiser, and it's not right," Walker says. "They have more important things to do."

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...&topart=luxury

[AlwaysLooking]

[QUOTE=greg72982;1007523]This article is from car and driver apparently but I found it on MSN. I thought it may make for interesting discussion...


Motorists such as George Hilliard are outraged at the ramped-up traffic enforcement. Hilliard, a 49-year-old warehouse worker who's been laid off, says he got a ticket last year near his home in Dearborn Heights on a section of road where the speed limit drops suddenly from 45 to 35 mph.

Define "suddenly". Isn't there a sign saying "reduced speed limit ahead"?

A few weeks later, his son got a ticket on the same stretch of road.
Like father, likle son

A few weeks after that, according to Hilliard, his other son got a ticket in the same spot.

speeding apparently runs in the family... Come on, after dad got his ticket he should have warned his kids that there is a stretch in the road where the speed "suddenly" changes, oh, and after the first son got a ticket, then maybe HE should have warned the rest of the family? Can't help stupid.

"The cops sit out there and pick people off, one by one," Hilliard says. "They're catching people left and right. There's a McDonald's right there, and they pull people in there all day.

Now see, this is not the town using cops to gather revenue. It's a deal between the cops and McDonald's. The cops get free coffee and breakfast burritos in exchange for directing customers to the restaurant.

They'll give you a ticket for going five miles over the speed limit. They're making so much money off people, it's ridiculous."

emphasis added. You're over the speed limit, you're over. And don't hate. It's not like the cops get to keep it for the coffee fund. You're supporting your town and ultimately you and your dumbass kids are going to benefit. They could raise your property taxes instead, but this way at least only the law-breakers get "punished".

Garrett TeWinkle of Seal Beach, California, was headed to a wedding in Ohio recently when he was given a speeding ticket in Taylor, a few miles from Detroit Metro Airport.

"I was astounded to get a speeding ticket," TeWinkle says. "Even my wife, who is my harshest critic, says there is no way I was driving as fast as the officer said. I hadn't had a ticket in years.

if you hadn't had a ticket in years but according to your wife always drive like an ass, then it sounds like you were overdue for another ticket.

"I had been under the impression that Michigan was trying to promote tourism," TeWinkle says. "Great way to make a first impression — no wonder the state's economy is in the porcelain."

Welcome to Michigan. We enforce the posted speed limit. Please drive safely.


Kathleen Weckler of Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, feels the same way. Last year, on her 80th birthday, she was on her way to the dentist when a police officer in nearby Birmingham gave her a ticket for running a red light. Weckler insists she didn't run the light — "but you can't fight them. It's their word against yours," she says.

Kathleen is clearly lying. She is 80 and still seeing a DENTIST? If Kathleen had gone to an OPTETRICIAN instead, perhaps she would have noticed the red light? Besides, at your age you should be paying a hefty old folk driving surcharge. Now there's a way to gather more revenue...

"I told one officer that I used to tell my children that police officers are their friend — but with the [ticket] quotas, they are not any more," Weckler says.

Officers were never anyone's friends (solely) because they didn't give them tickets when they deserved them. If they were, then it wasn't much of a "friendship" to begin with. They'll be your "friends" again next time someone tries to snatch your purse or steal your dentures.

Some police officers, such as Sgt. Richard Lyons of Trenton, Michigan, say they don't like being pressured to write more tickets.

"That's not what I got into law enforcement for — to hand out chintzy tickets," says Lyons, a 21-year veteran. "Things have changed from when I first started in this job. There was a time when you'd come in, do your job, and go home.

[b]Umm...and now they make you sleep over? Or are you implying that when you started you would just play poker at headquarters all day and never go out to write a ticket?[b/]

Jack Walker of Flint was given two speeding tickets within a few weeks of each other last year while driving in Orion Township. He says police are more aggressive than ever about stopping motorists.

some people just never learn... SLOW DOWN, dummy!

"It's getting ridiculous: Police are using us as their fundraiser, and it's not right," Walker says.

yeah, it's getting ridiculous alright... Don't speed. Don't pay.

"They have more important things to do."

Yeah, such as assisting the fire department in cutting corpses out of cars that were speeding...Some "friend" they are!

[FlyMIA]

Well I agree that there are some places which "seem" like the only reason they have a police force is for speeding tickets. There is this one small village near Miami that has a Police station as small as a tool shed but has about 15 units and the speed limit in the past year has dropped from 30 to 25mph and every one smart knows to never speed there. Same goes with a few other areas which are all 30mph zones. Even on a 6 lane wide Major Avenue going through a tall apartment building area the limit is still 30. Also you have the highways with the low 50mph or 55mph zones when the same highway in the next county 5 miles north is 65-70mph. But the speed limits are not the officers decisions those are the politicians who decide things like speed limits and how much a speeding ticket is. I do not think officers want to give out tickets though. They will give out tickets when they deem it necessary but not everyone who speeds deserves or gets a speeding ticket. I have been stopped for speeding 3 times in my 3 years of driving. (Only once on radar though) and I have yet to receive a ticket. (Knock on wood)

[Alexander Smith]

Haha! Great comments AlwaysLooking. This is so true. People act like they have a right to speed. I suppose it's getting ridiculous that police officers are enforcing the law? Sounds like these people need bigger fines. :D

[retdetsgt]

We have a few small towns that depend on ticket revenue. They post ridiculously low speed limits on the unpopulated, outskirts of town and put police out there with radar.

Frankly it offends the hell out of me when police are used as ATM's.:mad:

[Curt581]

Comparatively, cities don't make squat on moving violations. When you factor in how much of a cut the states get for court costs, jail fees, crime lab surcharges, etc, the percentage a city actually gets per ticket is pretty small. Now figure in how much a city pays for the officer's wages and benefits, patrol car maintenance and fuel, equipment and certification costs, etc... most are lucky to break even.

Parking enforcement is a much more lucrative and stable source of revenue, since the city keeps 100% of the dollar amounts collected. If a city uses civilian parking checkers, the associated costs are nowhere near those of other traffic violations.

[BJJVad]

Putting things into perspective. This guy is an idiot. Speeding is one of the most obvious charges that you can avoid as the driver of a vehicle. Don't push the pedal so damn hard!

This is not even one of the crafty vehicle violation sections. It doesn't get more obvious than a FAT sign that says 35 mph. Unless the 45 and 35 mph sign are less than 100 feet apart, there is no excuse for excessive speed.

[retdetsgt]

Comparatively, cities don't make squat on moving violations. When you factor in how much of a cut the states get for court costs, jail fees, crime lab surcharges, etc, the percentage a city actually gets per ticket is pretty small.

Actually some that have municipal courts do in Oregon. They fine the hell out of the driver and rarely find anyone not guilty. There are no crime lab fees, jail fees, etc since all that's done is the person is issued a citation to appear in court. Besides, those services are provided by the state or county at no direct cost to the cities.

In several of these, most of the tickets are written by reserves who love that shit and they don't cost anything except for their car and radar equipment.

Municipal judges in most are appointed (read hired) not elected so their only job is to generate bucks. If they don't they get someone else.

Where I worked, we have no municipal court, it's all state district court and we don't make any money at all on them. Which is the way it should be, IMO.

[Curt581]

Actually some that have municipal courts do in Oregon. They fine the hell out of the driver and rarely find anyone not guilty. There are no crime lab fees, jail fees, etc since all that's done is the person is issued a citation to appear in court. Besides, those services are provided by the state or county at no direct cost to the cities.

We use the State deposit schedule instead of a municipal ordnance list. Most violations are civil forfeitures. For an average speeder, say 16 to 19 over, the deposit is $50. The State adds to that a $13 Penalty Surcharge, an $18 Jail Surcharge/Crime Lab-Drug Surcharge, and $80 Justice Information System Surcharge, and a $25 Circuit Court cost amount. Total: $186.00 (Current as of 2008)

Of the original $50, because those other charges are earmarked, the State gets a big chunk of every (paid) ticket we write. The city or town where the ticket was written also gets a fair-sized piece, just because it was written within their city limits.

So... out of that $186.00 total, my agency/County gets about $15 to $20. I forget how the actual division is arrived at, but as I recall, it works out to a bit less than 10% of the total amount.

Yep, we're making money hand over fist, I tell ya. :rolleyes:

Contrast that with a parking tag: $27 if paid within 5 days, and we keep every dime. After 5 days, the amount goes up exponentially. A high percentage get paid since they've started doing tax refund intercepts, something they don't do with movers... yet.

A moving violation traffic stop takes approximately 15-20 minutes if you're doing all the record checks you're supposed to, while a parker takes less than 5 minutes to pound out.

Which would you think is more cost effective if all you were concerned about is generating revenue?

[mcsap]

In Pa the standard fine for MOST vio's is 109.50. Although the actual fine is only $25, the rest is various costs. The municipality gets 1/2 of the actual fine , so they get $12.50 off every ticket. Granted , speeding tickets cost more so the 1/2 amount does start to climb.

Parking tickets are $10 and they get to keep ALL of it.

[retdetsgt]

Which would you think is more cost effective if all you were concerned about is generating revenue?

Your state is obviously different from Oregon. A small percentage of all fines goes to the state police training agency and a little goes to a victims' assistance fund, but municipal courts get the vast majority of the money. But bear in mind, they don't do much else, if anything except traffic court.

Portland did away with municipal courts back in the early 70's, it wasn't worth it after several city ordinances (e.g. drunk on the street, our dis con ordinance, etc.) were found unconstitutional. It wasn't cost effective to have it just for traffic offenses so everything now goes to district court. Those judges are paid by the state, not the city so the state gets the lion's share of fine revenue.

One little town near me posted a 45 mph sign way out before town. The sign is there, but easy to miss because you're still in the country. There is no reason for that at other than to generate tickets. The locals know about it, but non-locals will often miss it.

The fines are significantly higher here too. Twenty over is about $300 bail and the fine will always be more than three figures.

[AlwaysLooking]

Interesting to hear some actual numbers from officers who know what they're talking about.

I DON'T know what I'm talking about, but I was wondering the following:

IF you indeed had to meet a speeding ticket quota, would you really need to cite anybody that's going 5 or less over the speed limit? Or even 10 or less?

It seems to me that people routinely drive at least 10 over the speed limit, so I would think that you could EASILY satisfy any quota by citing only drivers who go 10 or more over the limit. In my area, you could virtually cite 9 out of every 10 drivers on any road at any given time for 10 or more over. Hell, you could probably cite 8 out of 10 for 15 or more over.

So I guess I'm having a hard time believing that people all over the place are suddenly being cited for minor speeding infractions...Or that officers would depend on little fish when the pond is overstocked with big ones...Unless you're somewhere out in the middle of nowhere where the only cars coming by are lost tourists. I guess than you'd even catch the sardines...

Any thoughts?

[retdetsgt]

IF you indeed had to meet a speeding ticket quota, would you really need to cite anybody that's going 5 or less over the speed limit? Or even 10 or less?

No, and that's why I hated quotas. Put too many quotas on someone and they will either write chickenshit tickets or ignore other areas of police work.

Our traffic division has a point system. A moving violation is one point, an nonmoving, such as equipment defect or vehicle license problem is 1/4 point. DUI is 5, suspended license is 2 or 3, investigating a wreck is 3 and so on. At the end of the month, they look at the total number of points and the hours worked. The goal is one point an hour.

Since traffic guys have no other responsibilities, it's not that hard if they're paying attention at all. The idea is to prevent accidents by more intensive traffic enforcement and it works. They concentrate on problem areas. But we found that putting traffic quotas on patrol guys seems to raise the number of BS tickets around the end of the month for many.

When I was working uniform, I didn't write many tickets, but my Sgts knew I was out there working because I was bringing in other stuff. Just by listening to the radio, they knew I was walking the bars and trouble spots on my district and bringing in other arrests through the night. If I'd been told to write so many tickets, I'd have been wasting time (IMO) sitting on a traffic light or stop sign somewhere.

[greg72982]

Well I have worked for three departments and none had any type of quota...do they like to see numbers? Sure, it shows you are doing SOMETHING not just burning gas 8 hours a day.

And along with what mcsap said in PA the town only gets half of the fine so to create any type of revenue you would have to write astronomical amounts of tickets...

[mobrien316]

In the March issue of "Law and Order" magazine there was an article about how a recent study showed that an increase in traffic stops causes a decrease in the crime rate. Not just in the area where there is high-visibility patrol, but an overall decrease in the crime rate itself.

I looked for a link online but I couldn't find one.