What would you have done?

[sfb92]

On Friday I was watching a new show "Female Forces" which followed women police officers in Naperville, Illinois and the way one of the officers handled a call really suprised me.

The officer got a call for a traffic altercation and showed up and found a mother and her 14 year old daughter blocking a man in his parking spot, preventing him from leaving.

When the officer got everyone's side the woman said she was blocking him in because of a minor traffic altercation where he gave her the finger and called her a c***, the man intially denied it but when the officer said you can go admit it and apologize to her or go to jail for disorderly conduct he admitted it and apologized, and everyone went home.

Would the police officers on here have done the same thing or would the woman driver be in trouble? Also can you really arrest someone soley on the word of a driver and their passenger who is related to the driver?

Here in NJ I've seen people curse each other out while driving and give each other the finger, and people don't seem to give it a secound thought much less block the person in. Is it actually a crime to curse at someone while driving?

In my layman's opinion it would seem like blocking someone in with your car and preventing them from leaving, simply for cursing, would appear to be some sort of crime. BTW in no way do I condone someone calling a woman a c***, especially in front of their kid.

I'd be really interested to hear the police officer's opinions on here and other non leo's opinions.

[Creeker]

Profanity in public is Disorderly Conduct, no matter the fact that you might hear it done everyday where you are from... particularly in front of a Juvenile who is (theoretically) not supposed to be subjected to that kind of speech.

I suspect that enforcement of such violations is largely up to the mores and morality of each Jurisdiction and what... in a Cops experience... the Judge will find, and how much time a Cop has to complete each call.

Disorderly Conduct trumps illegal parking or blocking traffic in private parking lots.

[retdetsgt]

I would have told them both to grow up. She could be arrested for blocking his car. Shouting matches and name calling doesn't rise to the level of dis con in my state. Oregon has pretty strong protections on free speech unless specific threats are made. I wouldn't made him do anything.

But neither one would appreciate the police being called, I'd have seen to that.

[pafindr]

In a town near me a guy got arrested when he tipped over his kayak and started yelling profanities in front of a lady and her kids.

Mind you he wasn't yelling at anyone in particular. He was yelling out of anger to his kayak.

He took it to court and fought the conviction because it was one of those "old laws that shouldn't be inforced anymore". I can't remember what happened in the case. If I find it I can post it.


**** Found the article****
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jan/25/news/mn-1502

Here in Michigan, they’re also illegal.

Well, not exactly illegal. It’s OK to say “&#?@!!” if you’re alone. For the last 102 years, however, it has been illegal in Michigan to “use any indecent, immoral, obscene, vulgar or insulting language in the presence or hearing of any woman or child.”

It’s a dusty old law, tucked in a section of the penal code that bans unmarried cohabitation and exhibition of deformed human bodies. But it’s law nonetheless. Just ask Timothy Boomer.

Boomer, a 24-year-old engineering technician, has been charged with using obscenities in front of a woman and her children. The case goes to court here today. And it’s kicked off quite a debate in this one-stoplight town of 1,400, tucked beside Lake Huron......

[sfb92]

Profanity in public is Disorderly Conduct, no matter the fact that you might hear it done everyday where you are from

WOW I'm really suprised to hear that. You hear people curse all the time in today's society, and I always figured freedom of speech would protect cursing.

I would have told them both to grow up. She could be arrested for blocking his car. Shouting matches and name calling doesn't rise to the level of dis con in my state. Oregon has pretty strong protections on free speech unless specific threats are made. I wouldn't made him do anything.

But neither one would appreciate the police being called, I'd have seen to that.

+1 on telling them to both grow up and "But neither one would appreciate the police being called, I'd have seen to that."

There's no need to start a confrontation over someone cursing at you, especially when your kid is with you, it's just immature and not worth it, you don't know if the other person is armed or what. It's even worse that the lady involved the police in it just to make the guy apologize.

I was just really suprised that the officer didn't deal with the woman for blocking the guy in, I thought that would be a little more serious than cursing.

I noticed Creeker says cursing in public is disorderly conduct in SC while retdetsgt says it isn't in Oregon, is it safe to assume what rises to disorderly conduct is different in each state?

[BP348]

Sounds like a lot of he said she said. How does the officer enforce the disorderly conduct charge? All the guy had to say was that the lady yelled something back at him.

That being said I would think there also had to be some law broken when the lady blocked in the other driver.

[Creeker]

...That being said I would think there also had to be some law broken when the lady blocked in the other driver.

Illegal Parking, which can't be enforced on a non-posted private parking lot in this state.

It certainly isn't kidnapping. He was free to walk away.

It sounds like the woman was trying to instill some principles to her daughter, I'm not commenting on how prudent it was.

[sfb92]

Sounds like a lot of he said she said. How does the officer enforce the disorderly conduct charge? All the guy had to say was that the lady yelled something back at him.

Would the woman's daughter have been able to back up the mother's claims, or would what she said be ignored because she's the passenger and daughter of the driver?

That being said I would think there also had to be some law broken when the lady blocked in the other driver.

I wonder why the officer didn't address that at all? Maybe she identified with her as a mother or found it to be easier just to get the other driver to apologize.

If I was an officer and I got that call I would not be happy with the woman driver for blocking someone from leaving simply over words being exchanged. The officer threatened the man who was blocked in/cursed with arrest, I'd probally be arresting the woman who blocked him in. (like you said some law has to have been broken)

[sfb92]

Illegal Parking, which can't be enforced on a non-posted private parking lot in this state.

It certainly isn't kidnapping. He was free to walk away.
It sounds like the woman was trying to instill some principles to her daughter, I'm not commenting on how prudent it was.

While he was free to walk away, the way the woman had him blocked in he couldn't get his vehicle out of there. Would that affect things at all?

This maybe reaching but I was watching the "Academy" and the instructor explained to his class that false imprisonment was when someone was in a place they wanted to be but when they tried to leave someone prevented them and they couldn't leave.

I may have interpreted that wrong, but could false imprisonment be used in this situation or no because he could have walked away or did I totally misinterpret the meaning of false imprisonment?

[Creeker]

...I may have interpreted that wrong, but could false imprisonment be used in this situation or no because he could have walked away or did I totally misinterpret the meaning of false imprisonment?

It certainly was not "false imprisonment" unless she blocked him from exiting out of his vehicle.

[JakeLock]

She could sign a complaint here for DisCon, but I sure wouldn't arrest or even say I would arrest him on it.

Sounds like the female half of this situation needs to grow some thicker skin. And the cop needs to figure out a few things too.

In the words of my father, "Just deal with it."

[Johninaustin]

Been to quite a few of these.

"Ma'am, get back in your car and leave now."

"Sir, get back in your car and leave in another direction."

"You ARE talking to the supervisor". ;)

[retdetsgt]

It’s a dusty old law, tucked in a section of the penal code that bans unmarried cohabitation and exhibition of deformed human bodies. But it’s law nonetheless.

Oregon threw that part out of the disorderly conduct law 30 years ago. Unless the language is in the form of a threat, you can say whatever you want on a public street.

With commercial rap music selling CD's with that kind of language, I can't see how any law against it could hold up against a constitutional challenge. With some of these, you could probably be charged with taking your 15 year old to watch an R rated movie. It makes no sense any longer.
:rolleyes:

[explcdt8]

Actually in Colorado it is an Auto-DQ if you are convicted of allowing someone under 17 to view an R-rated movie (moral turpitude):rolleyes:

Or how about NY's Endangering the Welfare of a Minor, which includes "moral welfare" :rolleyes: Forget the fact that NO ONE, not a 30 year veteran juvinile officer, or even a judge specializing in crimes agaist children has been able to tell me what is meant by "moral welfare" or whose definition of "moral" they use.

In fact, I'm surprised both of these laws haven't been ruled unconstitutional since "moral" in this sense basically is a code word for "family-values as defined by the religious right"

[retdetsgt]

In fact, I'm surprised both of these laws haven't been ruled unconstitutional since "moral" in this sense basically is a code word for "family-values as defined by the religious right"

Oh, it's more than that. Our dis con used to cover just about anything that would constitute contempt of cop.

I was doing some work in our identification division years ago and cleaning out a lot of old fingerprint cards. Back then, they wrote a short synopsis of the charge on the card. I recall one woman was arrested for dis con for hanging out with the colored boys on the north end of town. Another was arrested during WWII for walking down the street with a couple of sailors.:rolleyes:

When I was growing up, people were expected to watch their language in public, movies never used foul language and violence was never graphic. Two cowboys could fight, beat each other with fists for 10 minutes and neither would be bleeding. Sometimes, they didn't even lose their hat.

But the 60's changed a lot of the norms. People started questioning the value of censorship as compared to free speech. Even politeness went away. I would have never called an adult by their first name when I was a kid. No one ever refers to people as Mr., Mrs or Ms anymore. Sir and Ma'am used to be routinely used when talking to older people or people in authority. Now young people seem to would rather choke than use those words. Young kids in my neighborhood routinely call me by my first name, so do their parents who are at least 20 years younger than I am. In the 50's and before, that would have never happened.

I'm not saying it's better, but it's different. And it's silly, IMO to arrest someone for using foul language with the culture that's developed in this country. This 14 year old girl has heard the "C" word before along with other unflattering sexual terms. For this mother to go off the deep end isn't anymore justifiable than the guy flipping her off and calling her a name. All that's become socially acceptable and the laws need to change to conform to cultural values.