NY State Supreme Court says PA Constables are LEOs

[Norm357]

And can carry on creds under LEOSA.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost...8&postcount=16

Link goes to a .pdf of the Courts ruling.

[Grift]

Wasn't there a big to-do on here awhile ago with some constable vociferously insisting that despite the lack of an Academy or arrest powers that they were LEO's?

I guess they've been vindicated.

[WellAdvised]

Interesting stuff - I still have trouble understanding your structures.

[basher52]

And can carry on creds under LEOSA.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost...8&postcount=16

Link goes to a .pdf of the Courts ruling.

The judge in this case (Hon, Ronald Zweibel) is to be commended for the rightful verdict. The prosecutor and the 2 police officers (probably from my dept) should be investigated and the cops receive additional training, regarding LEOSA and the NYS Penal and Criminal proccedure laws of the State of NY.

I cannot believe, that after VERIFING his identy, they still arrested him. The bosses should be held accountable for this injustice as well. I hope the Constable follows up by suing the daylights out of the City of NY.

Does anyone else from NY have additional info on this?

[Norm357]

The judge in this case (Hon, Ronald Zweibel) is to be commended for the rightful verdict. The prosecutor and the 2 police officers (probably from my dept) should be investigated and the cops receive additional training, regarding LEOSA and the NYS Penal and Criminal proccedure laws of the State of NY.

I cannot believe, that after VERIFING his identy, they still arrested him. The bosses should be held accountable for this injustice as well. I hope the Constable follows up by suing the daylights out of the City of NY.

Does anyone else from NY have additional info on this?

According to my source,(another Pa Constable who knows this guy) he is suing for 30 mill.

Gimmie a sec, and I will post the original incedent.

From the NRA legal defense website.

Manuel Rodriguez a/k/a Arthur Rodriguez (New York). He is a Pennsylvania Constable. Under Pennsylvania law he is authorized to carry a pistol without the need for a Pennsylvania license to carry a pistol. He was in New York City to execute a Pennsylvania warrant for an offense. He was parked in a Ford Crown Victoria equipped with police lights and it looked like an unmarked police car. New York City police questioned him about his identification and his occupation. They ignored his status as a police officer and ignored that he was executing a warrant. He was arrested for criminal possession of a pistol in the third degree, a felony. On November 3, 2006, Justice Ronald A. Zweibel of the New York Supreme Court, County of New York, held that Constable Rodriguez is a peace officer under Pennsylvania law and he is also a peace officer under New York Penal Law 265.20, which exempts out of state peace officers from needing a New York pistol license while performing their official duties in New York. Justice Zweibel further held that the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, 18 U.S. Code 926B, applied to him. Accordingly, the court granted the defense motion to dismiss the indictment. The court also ordered Constable Rodriguez's property, including his pistol, to be returned forthwith.

[charlydevo]

The judge in this case (Hon, Ronald Zweibel) is to be commended for the rightful verdict. The prosecutor and the 2 police officers (probably from my dept) should be investigated and the cops receive additional training, regarding LEOSA and the NYS Penal and Criminal proccedure laws of the State of NY.

I cannot believe, that after VERIFING his identy, they still arrested him. The bosses should be held accountable for this injustice as well. I hope the Constable follows up by suing the daylights out of the City of NY.

Does anyone else from NY have additional info on this?

Wow. I don't know what to say about this. I'd never want to screw a brother or sister LEO. But, in this case, I'd try to see about getting the USA Office to prosecute the cops for federal charges of deprivation of rights under the color of law. If the story as posted is true, they deserve it. They didn't give a crap about screwing the Constable. What's worse is that fact that the guy was engaged in official business at the time. I'll admit that I wouldn't know what a Contable can and can't do. But, I sure as hell wouldn't arrest him without figuring it out first. Plus, if the guy was trying to execute a warrant, why the hell would you want to interfere? I certainly hope that the DA responsible gets hammered too.

[charlydevo]

It only took me thirty seconds to find this, and I didn't arrest the guy:



Under Pennsylvania Law, Constables are Public Officers, elected or appointed to their position in accordance with the laws of elections.

A Constable is a sworn Law Enforcement/Peace Officer that can arrest for felony crimes and breaches of the peace committed in his presence, or by warrant anywhere in the Commonwealth.

A Constable is also an officer empowered to carry out the business of the statewide district court system, by serving warrants of arrest, mental health warrants, transporting prisoners, service of summons, complaints and subpoenas, and enforcing protection from abuse orders as well as orders of eviction and judgement levies.

Constables are also charged with maintaining order at the election polls and ensuring that no qualified elector is obstructed from voting, Constables are the only Law Enforcement Officials permitted at the polls on election day.

While Constables primarily serve the Courts, they belong to the executive branch of government.

Constables are elected at the municipal level, however State law governs Constables and they have statewide authority, thus the title became "State Constable".

Constables are empowered to enforce both criminal and civil laws, Police Officers are empowered to enforce criminal and traffic laws, Sheriff's are the chief law enforcement officer of the County and are empowered to enforce criminal, civil and traffic laws.

[basher52]

Wow. I don't know what to say about this. I'd never want to screw a brother or sister LEO. But, in this case, I'd try to see about getting the USA Office to prosecute the cops for federal charges of deprivation of rights under the color of law. If the story as posted is true, they deserve it. They didn't give a crap about screwing the Constable. What's worse is that fact that the guy was engaged in official business at the time. I'll admit that I wouldn't know what a Contable can and can't do. But, I sure as hell wouldn't arrest him without figuring it out first. Plus, if the guy was trying to execute a warrant, why the hell would you want to interfere? I certainly hope that the DA responsible gets hammered too.

At most, a trip to the house to sort things out. If I didn't see/read the judges decision I wouldn't have believed it. I cannot believe the DA signed off on this, then again I can. He or she (DA) probably figured it would put a feather in their caps, what asses IMO. Can I say a**es?

[Joeyd6]

I can shed some insight. PA Constable was told by supervisor to check -in with NYPD. He did not. Patrol saw him, stopped and questioned. He DID NOT identify himself immediately as LEO. There were words exchanged, which led to attitudes which led to "demands" being made. Then ID came about.

Operations Units and PC's office were notified and calls were made to PA officials. People did not return calls in timely manner (due to NYPD not relaying they had somebody in custody) and ADA was annoyed waiting. ADA also trying to make name for himself. By this point, you have everyone heads bigger than they should have been, a PA State Police inquiry stating they (constables) were not full power real LEO's and the collar went through.

And since the brass made the decision to collar, they pushed it with ADA brass and the court despite the arresting cops getting a case "amnesia." They were told instant charges and specs and they will be terminated. Big old mess.

All over a bunch of type A personalties getting into a pissing contest instead of everyone apologizing and realizing at the end of the day, we are all blue.

[Norm357]

Not arguing or MMQBing, I was not there and am only going by the Court filing.

PA Constable was told by supervisor to check -in with NYPD. He did not.

I asked the same thing over on GT. I'm sure the NYPD would have sent a couple of Officers along to help had he checked in.

He DID NOT identify himself immediately as LEO. There were words exchanged, which led to attitudes which led to "demands" being made. Then ID came about.

And yet when he did produce ID, the NYPD Officers claimed it was a fake. (According to the Court filing.)

Operations Units and PC's office were notified and calls were made to PA officials. People did not return calls in timely manner (due to NYPD not relaying they had somebody in custody) and ADA was annoyed waiting. ADA also trying to make name for himself. By this point, you have everyone heads bigger than they should have been, a PA State Police inquiry stating they (constables) were not full power real LEO's and the collar went through.

And since the brass made the decision to collar, they pushed it with ADA brass and the court despite the arresting cops getting a case "amnesia." They were told instant charges and specs and they will be terminated. Big old mess.

Yup, big ole mess indeed.

All over a bunch of type A personalties getting into a pissing contest instead of everyone apologizing and realizing at the end of the day, we are all blue.

Agreed 110%.

[charlydevo]

I can shed some insight. PA Constable was told by supervisor to check -in with NYPD. He did not. Patrol saw him, stopped and questioned. He DID NOT identify himself immediately as LEO. There were words exchanged, which led to attitudes which led to "demands" being made. Then ID came about.

Operations Units and PC's office were notified and calls were made to PA officials. People did not return calls in timely manner (due to NYPD not relaying they had somebody in custody) and ADA was annoyed waiting. ADA also trying to make name for himself. By this point, you have everyone heads bigger than they should have been, a PA State Police inquiry stating they (constables) were not full power real LEO's and the collar went through.

And since the brass made the decision to collar, they pushed it with ADA brass and the court despite the arresting cops getting a case "amnesia." They were told instant charges and specs and they will be terminated. Big old mess.

All over a bunch of type A personalties getting into a pissing contest instead of everyone apologizing and realizing at the end of the day, we are all blue.

Then I definitely hope the ADA gets the hammer, as well as whatever supervisor pushed the prosecution. If the cops were doing what they were told, then they shouldn't loose any sleep.

On a side note, I have made tremendous efforts in the past to keep the city cops informed of pending operations. I have even gone to the precinct and reviewed the op plans with the on-duty Supervisor. The next day, the operation went down. Who do you supposed rolled up, clueless as to what was going on? You guessed it. The boys in blue. What happens there? We get held up having to convince the cops that we are legit, and that we are doing an enforcement operation. That can be a great hindrance. It is possible that the Constable made the same call that I have made many times before, only to be forgotten about the second the phone was hung up.

Hopefully we can figure out some ways to prevent this kind of crap from happening again. I think that every law enforcement academy should have to include training in what the roles, responsibilities, and authorities of the various federal, state, and local agencies are.

[Joeyd6]

Yeah...the mess sucks! Everyone has blood on their hands on this one.

[Kimble]

I think that every law enforcement academy should have to include training in what the roles, responsibilities, and authorities of the various federal, state, and local agencies are.

To be honest, it probably won't fix anything. I remember in my APOST academy a federal agent coming in to explain the dozens and dozens of federal LE agencies out there, and I remember several of my classmates saying afterwards, "That was the most boring class we've had so far!" It people don't want to take the time to educate themselves and keep their own a$$ into a jam, giving "training" to fix the problem will only serve as a CYA for administration, not a fix to the actual problem.

Plus, several state, like AL, don't have constables. Some states have sheriff offices that only do corrections and court services (VA), where other states have sheriff departments set up as a county police agency. There are far too many agencies out there in the state and federal governments to keep track of who is who, which is why an educated person (patrol officer, supervisor or otherwise) will make appropriate checks to verify peace officer status when the situation arises. Otherwise, you get a cluster-f*ck like this.

I am curious, however, as to why the officers were led to believe the constable's ID and warrants were fake? Was there a reason, or were they just p*ssed off at the guy and didn't want to hear any of his excuses at that point?

[GoDirectly2Jail]

Some states have sheriff offices that only do corrections and court services (VA), where other states have sheriff departments set up as a county police agency.

Virginia actually has BOTH! ;) Same statutory authority, but different certifications. Clear as mud, right? :p

[Kimble]

Virginia actually has BOTH! ;) Same statutory authority, but different certifications. Clear as mud, right? :p

Really? I know in the Tidewater area the sheriff only does jail and court duties. When I told another agent (who is from the Hampton Roads area) I started off working PT for a sheriff's office he asked me what it was like to work in a jail. I told him, "No clue, never worked in one." It was a foreign concept to him that sheriff office did anything BUT jails and court.