happy 4/20!!!

[North Patrol]

I didn't really want to get into a substantive argument about this today but I think you don't have full understanding of what it is that defense attorneys do.

You'd be suprised what we understand. After doing this job for 20 years you catch on to certain things. How long have you been an attorney? Do you have a full understanding of what an officer does?

My job is not to let the guilty go free nor is it to discredit the police.

If you are getting paid it is you job to let the guilty go free!

No, I should rephrase that. Your job is to get your client off guilty or not. If you have a client that you know is guilty you will still defend him, right? However, if an officer has a person that he knows is innocent he will not try to prosecute them. See the difference between our noble proffesions?

Remember sometimes cops need defense attorneys too.

And most often that's because another "honest" attorney has gone after him. Like maybe an AUSA in El Paso? :eek:

And we would look for the sleaziest, nastiest, dirty fighting defense attorney we could find! Just think of the one that makes your skin crawl when you see him and that's the one you hire! :rolleyes:

[Capital_Defense]

You'd be suprised what we understand. After doing this job for 20 years you catch on to certain things. How long have you been an attorney? Do you have a full understanding of what an officer does?

I certainly do not have a complete understanding of what a police officer does, nor do I claim to. That remark was made specifically to the poster I was responding to and as preface to the rest of my statement.

If you are getting paid it is you job to let the guilty go free!

No, I should rephrase that. Your job is to get your client off guilty or not. If you have a client that you know is guilty you will still defend him, right? However, if an officer has a person that he knows is innocent he will not try to prosecute them. See the difference between our noble proffesions?

This is a good question and my response my not be adequate.

Unfortunately, things are not really that black and white. First of all what does it mean to say that I "know" my client is guilty? I may believe that he committed a crime but in my reasonable legal opinion the crime I believe he committed is a lesser crime than the crime or crimes he has been charged with. I will provide a zealous defense against crimes charged because he I believe he is not guilty of those crimes. Secondly, the Constitution mandates that everyone (yes even the ones most unsavory criminal defendants) are entitled to a legal defense. Would you have me roll over everytime it seems like there is enough evidence for a jury to convict? Would you have me do it even if I thought my clients constitutional rights were violated? If I think there is enough evidence to convict should I be forced to have my client enter a guilty plea even if to plead not guilt?

I certainly understand your point but please understand there are significant differences b/t a police officer or prosecutor dropping the case against someone they think is innocent, and a defense attorney dropping someone they think is guilty as a client. The consequences of the latter undermine the system of jusitice, erode our constitutional rights, and remove a very necessary check on government power.

And most often that's because another "honest" attorney has gone after him. Like maybe an AUSA in El Paso? :eek:

And we would look for the sleaziest, nastiest, dirty fighting defense attorney we could find! Just think of the one that makes your skin crawl when you see him and that's the one you hire! :rolleyes:

You certainly are entitled to the best possible defense.

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[sfb92]

Capital the guys case who you got on is a veteran member who was joking with other veteran members. This thread appeared to be pretty lighthearted and was just a bunch of veteran members joking around, there really was no need to make such a big deal out of it.

Just a friendly piece of advice the people on this site have friendly relationships with each other and will often joke around with each other, because they have gotten to know each other. If I were you I wouldn't jump into friendly threads and stir up huge debates.

Just my 2 cents take it for what it's worth.

BTW Lax were you out there locking up all the marijuana users on the streets of NYC? Seriously though is there really an increased use of marijuana on 4/20? I've heard the rumor before but always thought it was a joke.

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[Capital_Defense]

We actually can't drop a client for being guilty, without judicial order. We're supposed to simply defend them as best we can, without perjuring ourselves or allowing our client to perjure themselves.

Thanks. I was actually aware of that but I was trying to make a point about how it would hurt the justice system if we could. I think the argument that the justice system wouldn't work the way it's supposed to, sounds better than simply arguing that we're not allowed to.

Nice to know I'm not the only law student on the board.

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[Capital_Defense]

I was a law student, but they only let me stay for 3 years. And my clarification about dropping clients was for those who may not have known that, as I assumed you already did, or would as soon as you took your Professional Responsibility course and the MPRE.

You'll find there are several on here who have law degrees, many of whom work as LEO's.

My appologies. I jumped to a obviously erroneous conclusion. Good luck becoming a fed.

[CelicaGuy]

We should just take all convicts everywhere and ship them to Antartica! Much like what the English did, when they shipped them to Austraila!

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[CelicaGuy]

Sounds like a good plan!!!!

[North Patrol]

And while I have nothing but respect for your court room experience of 20 years about the attorneys you have interacted with, I have to question the underlying premise behind the assertion that the cop won't prosecute a person they know is innocent. They may not book them, they may not press the prosecutor for a prosecution, but it is the prosecutor (an attorney) who makes the decision about whether or not they have enough EVIDENCE to go forward. That is based on my colleagues who are prosecutors and my time working in the courts.

Trust me I am well aware of who does the actual filling of charges. You misunderstood what I meant by "prosecute". I was not speaking of the legal action but the investigative portion. As in to engage in an investigation of the person. I should have just said we would stop.

I just have to sit back and wonder why some one would choose to be a defense attorney. Is it to help defend the poor falsely accused, to maintain a fair balance in the justice system or just to earn a buck?

Just remember that all of this is nothing more than my opinion and in no way matches all of the high speed training attorneys receive.

Lawyers and cops have one thing in common. Noone wants them around until they need them!

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[JakeLock]

We should just take all convicts everywhere and ship them to Antartica! Much like what the English did, when they shipped them to Austraila!

And as we've all seen Britain has zero crime and Australia is in complete anarchy... Come bro! It didn't work then it won't work now. I think the justice system needs a revamp, I don't have the answers, but I think it needs an overhaul.