Polygamist Sect

[greenhead]

What do you all think about this situation?

Polygamist Sect Mothers Forced to Leave Their Children
Tuesday, April 15, 2008

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April 12: Dale Barlow leaves the Heritage building after being questioned by Texas Rangers in St. George, Utah.
April 12: Dale Barlow leaves the Heritage building after being questioned by Texas Rangers in St. George, Utah.
SAN ANGELO, Texas — Texas officials who took 416 children from a polygamist retreat into state custody sent many of their mothers away, as a judge and lawyers struggled with a legal and logistical morass in one of the biggest child-custody cases in U.S. history.

Of the 139 women who voluntarily left the compound with their children since an April 3 raid, only those with children 4 or younger were allowed to continue staying with them Monday, said Marissa Gonzales, spokewoman for the state Children's Protective Services agency. She did not know how many women stayed.

"It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made," she said.

The women were given a choice: Return to the Eldorado ranch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon sect, or go to another safe location. Some women chose the latter, Gonzales said.

On Monday night, about three dozen women, many of them mothers, sobbed and held onto each other outside a log cabin on the sect's ranch, recounting the way police officers encircled them in a room and told them that they could not stay.

One woman, Marie, said the women weren't allowed to say goodbye to their crying children.

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Polygamist Retreat "They said, 'your children are ours,"' said the sobbing 32-year-old whose three sons are aged 9, 7 and 5 and who would not give her last name. "We could not even ask a question."

She said the children at the ranch have not been abused, but she feels like "they are being abused from this experience." She said the children have been "have been so protected and loved."

The women believe the abuse complaint that led to the raid came from a bitter person outside their community.

The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.

"Quite frankly, I'm not sure what we're going to do," Texas District Judge Barbara Walther said after a conference that included three to four dozen attorneys either representing or hoping to represent youngsters.

The mothers were taken away Monday after they and the children were taken by bus under heavy security out of historic Fort Concho, where they had been staying, to the San Angelo Coliseum, which holds nearly 5,000 people and is used for hockey games, rodeos and concerts. The polygamist retreat is about 45 miles (72 kilometers) south of San Angelo.

Some of the youngsters' mothers complained to Gov. Rick Perry that the children were getting sick in the crowded fort. About 20 children had a mild case of chickenpox, said Dr. Sandra Guerra-Cantu with the state Health Department.

Perry spokesman Robert Black said the governor did not believe the children were being housed in poor conditions at the West Texas fort. "Let's be honest here, this is not the Ritz," Black said, but he called the accommodations "clean and neat."

CPS said the move to the coliseum had been in the works since last week, but couldn't be done sooner because the facility had been booked for another event and had to be cleaned and set up for the children.

CPS also said about two dozen teenage boys were moved to a facility outside San Angelo with the judge's permission. "We don't normally say where we place teens," Gonzales said when asked where they were sent.

Monday's courtroom conference was held to work out the ground rules for a court hearing beginning Thursday on the fate of the children.

The judge made no immediate decisions on how the hearing will be carried out. Among the questions left unanswered: Would a courtroom big enough to hold everyone be available at the Tom Green County Courthouse, or would some kind of video link be employed?

Texas bar officials said more than 350 lawyers from across the state have volunteered to represent the children free of charge. Moreover, the 139 mothers who voluntarily left the sect to be with their children will need lawyers, too, to help them fight for custody.

The sheer numbers left the judge perplexed as she considered suggestions from the lawyers for how to handle Thursday's hearing.

"It would seem inefficient to have a witness testify 416 times," the judge offered. "If I gave everybody five minutes, that would be 70 hours."

In an unintended illustration of the problem, Walther gave the lawyers 30 minutes to break into groups and report back to her with ideas. It took almost two hours for everyone to reassemble.

The raid followed a call to a domestic violence hot line from a 16-year-old girl who said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.

In addition to becoming a monumental legal morass, the case is proving to be a public-relations headache for the state.

Over the weekend, some of the mothers went on the offensive, complaining the children are falling ill and are frightened and traumatized from living in cramped conditions at the fort, with cots, cribs and playpens lined up side by side.

The secretive nature of the sect — and the indoctrination children receive from birth to mistrust outsiders — have added to the confusion.

Randoll Stout, one of the lawyers who plan to represent some of the children, said the youngsters "seem to change their names. Adults change their names. Children are passed around."

Betty Balli Torres, executive director of the Texas Access to Justice Foundation, said 10 women went into the San Angelo legal aid office last week seeking help and reported there were 100 more women who needed lawyers.

Attorneys began meeting with the women over the weekend. She said it was vital that the mothers be represented by lawyers. Otherwise, they could lose their children — "what we call kind of the death penalty of family law cases," she said.

A church lawyer, Rod Parker, said the 60 or so men remaining on the 1,700-acre (688-hectare) ranch have offered to leave the compound if the state would allow the women and children to return to the place with child welfare monitors. But the state Children's Protective Services agency said it had not yet seen the offer and had no comment on it.

The sect practices polygamy in arranged marriages between underage girls and older men. The group has thousands of followers in two side-by-side towns in Arizona and Utah. The sect's prophet and spiritual leader, Warren Jeffs, is in prison for forcing an underage age into a marriage in Utah.

In Salt Lake City, dozens of polygamist wives with children in tow held a rally on the steps of City Hall to denounce the Texas raid. Rally organizers brought 475 wrapped care packages for the children in state custody.

"Reunite these children with their families. Let them go home," 18-year-old Kent Johnson said.

[Johninaustin]

Personally? I think every adult male in the compound should be DNA tested. If their DNA matches the child of a pregnant 13-year old then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. :mad:

Actually, my first response involves a rope and a tree, but that's just my typical direct approach.

[greenhead]

Personally think this is a seriously sick group of people. I hope those children will eventually be ok. I've seen the interviews with the women who have "escaped" and it doesn't sound pretty. :mad:

[hd2]

I have to say I'm really glad that this issue is being addressed. I think it is disgusting that children are being abused and raped and taught that it is a normal part of life. I think it is somewhat unfortunate that the situation SEEMS to be disorganized and chaotic because of the way this situation started -the call LE was responding to- (the anonymous rape call) this time around. I mean, how is there a way around this? The sheer amount of people involved how organized can it be on that short of notice from when this investigation began? I feel that no matter the suffering now, if the children are separated from their parents, it will be saving them suffering in the long run. I hope some good comes out of this and its not too late for the children to live a real actual NORMAL life and not what they are taught to endure. I commend the women that did make the choice to voluntarily leave the compound. That must mean there's hope.

[SgtJJ]

What a sick screwed up world.

[explcdt8]

Do you think CPS is handiling this right?

I think if they absolutely had to separate the mothers and their children they could have at least allowed them to say good bye first. Assuming the allegations are true.

[Creeker]

...I think if they absolutely had to separate the mothers and their children they could have at least allowed them to say good bye first. Assuming the allegations are true.

Hows this:

Now, Mommy has to go somewhere else for a little while, and I want you to be a big boy while I'm gone. Remember not to say anything about who your daddy is or what he did to you the night before the big bad PO-leece came and took us away. If you do, you will never get to come home again, and Mommy will be very upset, so don't say anything to these mean people who are keeping you away from home and away from your daddy, who loves you. Remember how Daddy loves you? Remember not to say annything about what Daddy has ever done to you...

Is that what you want? :rolleyes:

[Piggy]

Do you think CPS is handiling this right?

I think if they absolutely had to separate the mothers and their children they could have at least allowed them to say good bye first. Assuming the allegations are true.

I do, these kids are working as sex slaves for a bunch of sick twisted freaks. If the mom doesn't have the brains to do something about it when this is their chance, they can at least give the kids a chance.

[ruby0711]

Do you think CPS is handiling this right?

I think if they absolutely had to separate the mothers and their children they could have at least allowed them to say good bye first. Assuming the allegations are true.

Yes, I have no doubt that the authorities handled this the best way. Taking a child away from the life they have ever known is traumatic, but with EXCELLENT mental health professionals and proper questioning from the police..these children will be ok. In time...and it WILL take time. But kids are more resiliant than people realize.

When I watched the 'mothers' crying on TV, and avoiding the questions about child-rape, I wanted to reach through the TV and...well, someone mentioned a rope and a tree....

But these people have been programed and brought up through generation after generation to have these beliefs, deprograming the adults is going to be tough..the children will be a lot easier.

A couple of my professors are heading out there...some of the top researchers in psychological trauma, because the trauma of the kids being taken from the only life they have ever known will be a top priority, once that is taken care of, then it will be easier to gain information that law enforcement can use. But the kids need to learn how to trust the 'outsiders' first....

Sad story, but I think the future outcome will be a good one. THAT I am hopefull.

[explcdt8]

Just be careful. When a psycologist interviews children they can use tactics that would get an LEO put on crossing guard duty for life.(ie. Leading Questions,hypnosis, etc.)

I hope the mental health people know what they are doing and do not give defense attorney's a 'loophole' by saying that the children had ideas planted in their minds by the Dr.'s

[ruby0711]

Just be careful. When a psycologist interviews children they can use tactics that would get an LEO put on crossing guard duty for life.(ie. Leading Questions,hypnosis, etc.)

I hope the mental health people know what they are doing and do not give defense attorney's a 'loophole' by saying that the children had ideas planted in their minds by the Dr.'s

yes, I agree; 100%, 'false memories' can be implanted VERY easy with the wrong type of tactics.

Hypnosis is the WORST...WORST..WORST thing any psychologist can do, and we've learned from some terrible mistakes that were made in the 80's. Now, with the particular case I am talking about; a day care case where there was mass pseudo reports of molestation..both LEO and mental health professionals were at fault. I've seen the tapes, and because of current trends of the time, that were used by both mental health pro's and LEO's...people were falsely convicted. The parents were also at fault...no one can point the finger at who was at fault, it was mass hysteria, and everyone who took part in the questioning were guilty.

Those cases drastically changed the way children are questioned during molestation cases...drastically.


I have hope that this will not happen.

[greenhead]

I keep seeing these women on the morning shows and Larry King. They look and sound like absolute zombies! I really hope this has a positive outcome.

[explcdt8]

I really don't get why they go on those shows so soon.


How many times has this happened:


Child gets Kidnapped Monday
Rescued Wednesday
On Oprah/Montel by Friday

Don't LEO's tell these people or the parents it's a bad idea?

[oscarmitre]

Two words. Due process. As long as that's observed then the job has to be done.

[sgtbear111]

oscarmitre: tried to rep you.
Due process is not sensation seeking, or instant polls. It will grind along to a conclusion.