Should Campus Cops carry guns?

[Charlie]

From PoliceOne Web Site
www.policeone.com

Should Campus Cops Carry Guns? One College President Says "No!"
11/19/2003

And Officers Are Up In Arms!
What Do You Think?
A PoliceOne Special Report by Scott Buhrmaster

[Also see this related article: Police At Risk on College Campuses]

Add your comments on this issue in the PoliceOne Forums

Columbus State Community College (Ohio) President Val Moeller doesn’t want guns on her campus. Understandable -- when it comes to the institution’s civilian faculty and nearly 23,000 students -- but extremely controversial when you realize that Moeller’s resolve to maintain a firearms-free environment extends to the sworn officers who make up the college’s police force.

"The question of whether our agency should be armed is a highly volatile issue," CSCC Police Chief Mike Stritenberger told PoliceOne. "Our officers are very emotional about it, as well they should be. I fully support their interest in being allowed to carry firearms. Firearms and police officers go together. In my more than 30 years of sworn law enforcement work, this is the first position I’ve taken where carrying a firearm is not allowed."

President Moeller’s thinking was made clear, at least in part, on a "Chat with the President" forum based on the Columbus State Intranet system. When asked to explain her anti-armed officer position she replied, "Much of the research shows that having armed public safety officers on campus increases the chances for more violence."

When challenged to produce the source of the "research" referred to, Moeller cited "NACUBO, the National Association of College and University Officers." However, the sole unnamed supporter of the arming movement noted that Moeller’s response, related verbatim above, was misleading.

"Right off the bat, Val attempts to mislead us by citing an organization of ‘college and university officers,’ seemingly an organization of campus law enforcers," writes the author. "However, ‘NACUBO’ actually stands for the ‘National Association of College and University Business Officers’, a group with absolutely no expertise in law enforcement or public safety."

Continuing her justification, Moeller writes, "Also, when someone comes on campus and sees armed public safety officers, it indicates that the campus is not safe."

"We continually run into faculty members who are stunned to learn that our officers are unarmed," responds Chief Stritenberger. "They assume, as do likely many of the students and their parents, that we are armed and trained to use that level of force, if necessary, to protect them."

In summarizing her position Moeller continued, "In some cases, firearms which public safety officers have carried have been used against them. Finally, Columbus State works closely with the Columbus Police Department to insure that if necessary, Columbus Police will respond immediately as back-up for our officers."

"Of course there are risks inherent to being an armed police officer, including attacks that result in your weapon being used against you and armed encounters that result in legally challenged shootings but that’s part of police work," says Chief Stritenberg. "To say that because there are risks associated with being armed, police officers shouldn’t carry guns seems mind-boggling,"

In a 2002 television interview, the college’s former vice president of Institutional Advancement, Pieter Wykoff, also weighed in on the anti-arming side. "We don’t have a history of violent crime," he said. "I’ve been at the college for five years, so we haven’t really had a need to have weapons on campus."

"That is a fallible position," responds Chief Stritenberger. "Our campus is located in the middle of an extremely dangerous, high-crime area. We encounter many different people and we make both misdemeanor and felony arrests. To say that just because tragedy hasn’t struck eradicates the potential that it will is a weak and dangerous position."

Today, reports of school and workplace shootings seem almost common. In fact, a recent USA Today article reports that in just the first few weeks of the 2003/2004 school year, the number of reported violent deaths in public schools surpassed the number reported in either of the previous two school years. Among the factors determined by experts to be possible causes of the increase are magnified student stress, a poor economy and higher academic standards, all factors present on college-level campuses.

Given that, an opinion that arming sworn police officers is both unnecessary and ultimately counter-productive to public safety is sure to draw fire. And draw fire it has.

In addition to pursuing legal channels that may yield support for arming the agency—a quest that according to the chief has yet to yield fruit—supporters have posted an exhaustive Web site found at: www.nodeadcops.org, introduced with the ominous warning, "Columbus State Cops Are Sitting Ducks!" and filled with extensive commentary supporting the pro-arming cause and countering claims that doing so would be a mistake.

The arguments in support of arming Columbus State Community College Officers and other currently unarmed officers in the same position across the country are seemingly endless. Perhaps there are some who believe that arguments against armed campus police forces are just as powerful. Either way, we are very interested in what you have to say.

To share your thoughts on whether campus police officers should be armed, regardless of location or historical track record of violence on campus, please visit the PoliceOne Forum on this topic.

One expert opinion in favor of arming campus police officers, both in college and pre-college settings, comes from drug expert Steve Walton. Walton, author of the best-selling guide, "First Response Guide to Street Drugs" and a career drug investigator says the prevalence of drug use in schools is reason enough to arm campus cops.

"Many of the drugs popular on today’s college and high school campuses cause students to become extremely volatile," says Walton. "The drugs can cause paranoia, extreme agitation and tainted decision-making that can result in violent confrontations with campus officers. If an officer finds himself challenged with approaching a student who has consumed a drug such as Methamphetamine, Cocaine, PCP, Wet and others, and he is not prepared to protect himself and the general population with the degree of force necessary, up to and including the use of a firearm, he is in potentially grave danger.

"Campuses across the country of all sizes and demographic mixes are susceptible to student drug use," he continues. "It’s a fact that few deny. Given that, the decision to remove one of the most essential force options an officer has seems in very poor judgment. I would think parents would demand that the officers who protect their sons and daughters be armed."

To arm or not to arm. To date, that remains the burning and controversial question at Columbus State Community College. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!

[P01IC3M4N]

i used to work for a public school district police department. i caught burglars, took firearms and knives off of people, had several drug arrests a week, and made countless traffic stops a week. the district i worked for spanned 115 square miles and consisted of 22 schools and 5 administration buildings. daytime population of over 30,000. there were 4 of us on patrol during the daytime.

name an f'ing city that has that much s**t to do and doesn't carry a gun? the district police department was created when there was a drive-by shooting at the high school i mainly worked. while assigned there, i worked one drive by shooting and one stabbing.

dumba$$es.

[EX_529]

Why not? As long as you have the training and certification. I suspect that school officers in the rougher areas such as LA and Oakland carrry guns.

[hdpd.explorer k]

Just because thay work in a school does not mean they should be disarmed .high schools are rough kids bring guns/knifes to school all the time even small school p.d's carry guns .just becase the suspect is a kid does not mean he will not kill someone.

[soontobec.o.]

Yes they should be armed. Big stink about it a few years ago here with the state universities. Campus police (who go through the same training and are peace officers just like any other LEO in the state) around here were voted to be kept unarmed.

Its complete b.s. The presidents of the 3 public universities don't want armed campus police because it "Presents a bad image of the campus being an unsafe place". Give me an f-ing break. Cops around with guns = I feel safer.

I actually got the chance to speak with the head of the campus police about 2 years ago on the subject and he let me see some of the arrest logs and told me about many many incidents where they've stopped vehicles and uncovered firearms in the vehicles.

My favorite was the story about catching a theif in the parking lots on campus. When the officers arrived on scene he took off running. They took him down and when cuffing him found a 9mm in his waste-band. When they asked why he didn't try to shoot at them he said "Because man, I didn't want to get shot by you." When they informed him that they were unarmed (except for OC and batons) his reply was "If I'd have known that, things would have gone much differently".

The stupidest part about the entire situation is that the campus police have a response time of approx 1 1/2 min to anywhere within their jurisdiction (which includes an 8 block radius from campus). Local PD response time = 10min. And here's the kicker. Since the campus police are unarmed, if they ever get a call for example of someone possibly being raped in their dorm room they will be on scene within literally 2 minutes but cannot go inside to stop the rape because the perp may possibly be armed and policy states that since they cannot meet like force with like force they may not enter till the local PD arrives.

edit: Oh yeah, I forgot. The campus police have a mutual assistance agreement with the city PD whereas they will assist the city PD on calls and city PD will reciprocate on campus calls. So when the city PD is out chasing down possible armed criminals, their backup is the unarmed campus police. Complete and utter nonsense sending them into situations like that with no way to protect themselves and defend the lives of others.

[sgtbear111]

If the officers are sworn/arrest powers, uniformed, and required to provide police services, they should be armed. It is dangerous and unfair to expect the local PD to cover them.

This campus administrator is working towards her Order of Lenin merit badge from the Gun Control groups. Do away with all the guns, we will have no crime!!! How progressive !!!! See how simple it is if we can run your life for you???

Further, college administrators have a tendency to misrepresent (under-report) the campus crime UCR stats as well, they fear a loss of enrollment = $$$$$.

10-12 years ago, a Western Washington State University dean tried disarming the campus force because he didnt like guns, The Univ. lost an "unsafe workplace" labor action and the State cited them requiring their force be armed. The fines ran up each day the Univ. was out of compliance. I am aware of a similar action with a WA state law enforcement agency and it's truck enforcement officers, the State lost. Agency was cited and fined. Another state agency, with an enforcement division, saw it coming and is now arming their uniformed / sworn officers.

The officers at this Ohio campus can file an unsafe workplace complaiint with the State of Ohio and US Labor Dept. There is some precedent.

I hope no officers are hurt before the tampering of this idiot (or socialist) adminstrator is corrected.

[rdp]

If they don't want cops, just hire unarmed security.

They had an article about a community trying to disarm the officers in Alaska...........haven't heard about it since.

[EricTheBald]

I remember some quote, might be an urban myth, that I think was attributed to a Texas Ranger...

When asked if wasn't dangerous to have a cocked & locked firearm on his hip, he replied; "It sure is." or words to that effect.

[Stump]

Originally posted by sgtbear111
If the officers are sworn/arrest powers, uniformed, and required to provide police services, they should be armed.

I agree with da Sgt on this. I think that there should be a division of the police that work at college campuses. We have cops that work in high schools, why not do the same for colleges? If it is not a state certified cop that has gone through the exact same academy training as patrol officers, then they shouldn't be armed.
On a side not, we just assigned a deputy full-time to one of our local malls.

[P01IC3M4N]

when i worked at the school district, we worked traffic in school zones, backed up city/county agencies, and sometimes handled their calls completely if they were busy or it fell into our lap. we also had plenty of car pursuits from traffic stops. our jurisdiction was the entire 115 sq miles, not just the campuses. school cops also have mobile jurisdiction. once, the district had playoffs in austin. 3 of our guys went down to work it as they had full jurisdiction over anything being used by the district while in austin.

i can't imagine the beating you'd take from kids being a cop without a gun. we did have plenty of prinicipals that didn't want us in or near their school. they had the mentality that cops in the school means a problem and they don't want parents getting that image. the parents all felt differently.

[Toeknee112]

In CA the University system has their own police department. This is from the Cal State Chico Website:
"The University Police Department is a full-service state police agency staffed by sworn state peace officers 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. University Police officers are trained First Responders and respond to all on-campus reports of fire, police and medical emergencies. The officers have statewide police authority and are vested with law enforcement powers pursuant to California Penal Code Section 830.2. Officers enforce local, state and federal laws both on and off campus. As state officers their police authority includes concurrent jurisdiction with the Chico Police Department and the Butte County Sheriff’s Department on adjacent streets and in the surrounding community."

[gdowkpc]

I went to a junior college in a town with the poulation of 18,000 in eastern Idaho. The college was run by an extremely conservative church. Most of the town belonged to this church. This was the last place on earth that something would happen, but it's just the one possibility that promoted school administrators to be reponsible.

This school had a population of only 8,000 students, but it had it's own campus police force. They were sworn police officers assigned to the campus. Of course, they were armed.

I didn't see it as strange. I thought it promoted a feeling that the campus was safer simply because administrators took safety seriously. Unarmed security guards only provide a facade of safety, and when it really goes down, you are unprepared and have to call in at outside agency.

It's obviously liberal administrators that get so queezy about guns. Do they think for a second that a student can't bring a gun onto campus very easily? There have been campus shootings at colleges. It's a different world. Sticking your head in the sand just leaves your a$$ exposed.

[mcsap]

Agree with Sgt B on this. Students wearing a security uniform , NO WAY. Sworn police officers, YES 100%.

[locokarma]

yes for sworn officers

[darrell]

I work for a campus security department. We have 1 full timer and 2 part timers. We have a population of 3,800 people which includes staff and support personal. We are not armed all we carry is O.C., cuffs and a nextel. I carry limited medical stuff, I am the only AED certified person and instructor at the school, also I am a medical first responder. They are talking about turning this into a police department, the big push is from 3 board members that are retired police officers and the 1 was a campus officer. I would liek to see it happen, if it does in the next year I was told they will keep me on staff and send me to the academy.