Jail Deputy dumps parapalegic from wheelchair to the floor to search

[Cat_Doc]

This video precedes the one with the wheelchair. IMO, there is a "systemic problem" at that facility, or perhaps within the entire Sheriff's Office. My thought is that it is now time to clean house ..... the public confidence has been betrayed.

Sir, this is exactly what you wrote. I simply noted that not all the facts are known to justify this conclusion.

You got butt hurt when some members called you on this. Now, you are using classic sophism in an attempt to skirt out from under the comments.

Regarding my skills as an investigator, I will rest on my laurels. Your insult is empty and ineffective.

If I were to engage in such nitpicking insults, I would chastise you for writing that the two incidents were within a couple of months of each other, when in fact, they were not.

I would chastise you for failure to take into account the total number of inmates moved through that facility based on the number of incidents raised by the media when concluding there is a systemic problem.

I would chastise you for exclaiming that there was inaction against evil by good men, when clearly the Sheriff took immediate corrective action resulting in administrative sanctions and criminal charges regarding the wheel chair incident.

I would chastise you for failing to take into account the female detention officer vs. female inmate was reviewed multiple times and the officer was exonerated of violating any policy or procedures and was cleared of any criminal culpability.

I would chastise you for jumping to an ill informed emotional conclusion before gathering, reviewing or considering all the facts.

Sir, your own argument has backfired on you regarding facts.

You wrote what you wrote. You cannot squirm out from under it at this point in the game. ;)

Using your own argument, would you please provide facts, as an investigator, which supports your conclusion of a systemic problem which requires a “cleaning of the house.”???

You see, Sir, you did not state a closet needs to be cleaned. You did not state a hallway needs to be cleaned, nor a room. You said, quote, “cleaning of the house.” What did you expect readers were going to conclude? :confused:

[BJJVad]

I didn't realize that Edmund Burke was a moderator on this Forum. The quote to which I am referring goes, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.", which I intended to refer to the inaction or acquiesence of the other Deputies and Supervisors in that Department in not one, not two, but three incidents (one of which resulted in the death of a juvenile) which would otherwise have never come to light had it not been for videotape. But the body count is not yet high enough to even dare question the possibility of impropriety.

The entirety of your post was as follows..

"We may disagree with each other, but let's not disrespect each other.

I believe several Forum members utilize a quote by the famous Irish philosopher Edmund Burke in their signature. Perhaps it may be a good time to review it."

I am not a mind reader. Your vagueness in your post suggests that you felt I disrespected you. If you are going to change the subject and add in these phantom clues for me to research your thoughts, why not leave a magic decoder ring to go with it. Or how about articulate yourself enough that someone will understand your thought process to conclusion.

As LEO's, we have the duty and responsibility to report abuse and not turn a blind eye to it, at least that is in my Agency's Rules of Conduct but apparently not yours. It also appears by your definition that when people witness abuse who are "duty bound" to report it but fail to do so, it is not a "cover up" but appropriate behavior for whatever code of silence you live by.

I just read your following posts to this statement and you harped on Cat_Doc for misreading your statements in regards to this issue. I like to know where I have ever stated that my department's belief's or my own are that of which to turn a blind eye.

You also appear to be very adept at using vitriolic and inflamatory language in your posts, making accusations of prejudice, ignorance, and conspiracies using terms like crud and bull$hit to elevate the debate.

I am an adult, and will use language as I see fit. I found it suiting to your post.

"IMO, there is a "systemic problem" at that facility, or perhaps within the entire Sheriff's Office. My thought is that it is now time to clean house"

I feel it was prejudice in nature, since there is no evidence that this is a department issue.

As many have already stated, it is the department that released these tapes. It is the department that installed the system in the first place. There were bad choices by those who were involved in this incident, at the force level and Supervisor's duty to report an incident. Again that displays only bad judgment for those who were involved, NOT the entire Sheriff's Office as you proclaim.

Would it help if I said you sound more like a member of the Waffen SS than someone who took an oath to uphold the US Constitution?

What if you said? So far you haven't stated anything to me that is relevant besides your far fetched ideology and conspiracy theories.

Someone who uses the "Jesse Jackson Race Card" in their signature should not be accusing others of prejudice.

I have never prejudged him. I have met the man, and my thoughts and feelings are perfectly represented by my signature.

[Cat_Doc]

you harped on Cat_Doc for misreading your statements in regards to this issue.

Did I misread his post? If I did, was I the only one?

Or, is it possible he meant just exactly what he wrote?

The man is fairly articulate. The few months he has been on here, I have taken his comments at face value.

Why is that different now?

I believe I know why it is different. And, I believe the silent majority also knows.

In any event, one must admit it is somewhat entertaining to watch two Type A personalities at work. :D

[BJJVad]

Yes, he can be very articulate at times, but I found he does not complete all his thoughts thoroughly.

Either way, I don't feel we misread anything when it came to his opinion on the "entire Sheriff's Office."

Lastly, I must call my mother to let her know that her little boy is swearing again.

[Taz_bb2]

@Cat_Doc: There appears from some of the posts in this thread, and your phrase "snooty elitism" that I have somehow portrayed myself to be superior or better than other LEO's. There is nothing further from the truth and I challenge you to show me where I may have shown nothing but courtesy and respect in any of my other responses on this Forum.

For starters:
#1)

It also appears by your definition that when people witness abuse who are "duty bound" to report it but fail to do so, it is not a "cover up" but appropriate behavior for whatever code of silence you live by.

Here you have the audacity to question not only BJJVad's integrity, but every other LEO who is here. If you actually took time to gather the facts, almost 100% of those that responded in this thread agreed that it was the wrong thing to do, and most, at least privately if not publicly, agreed that charges should be brought upon her for dumping him out like that. But we don't have the authority nor capability to make those decisions. Oh wait, the Sheriff of Hillsborough County did just that.

#2)

Would it help if I said you sound more like a member of the Waffen SS than someone who took an oath to uphold the US Constitution?

Here you have once again attacked BJJVad, but your attack has become dogmatic. Everyone is very well aware of the tactics and disregard that the SS employed, and for you to insinuate that he, let alone any of us that are LEOs, are in any way, shape, form, or fashion even remotely akin to the horrors of the SS shows your "holier-than-thou" attitude and ignorance.

#3)

Someone who uses the "Jesse Jackson Race Card" in their signature should not be accusing others of prejudice.

And who are you to tell anyone what they should or should not display? For someone who so haughtily defends the Constitution, you sure have a totalitarian viewpoint of the Freedom of Speech. If you want to call him a hypocrite, then have the moxie to do so. Otherwise, you have no grounds, ethical, moral, or legal to impugn another individual over what they have in their signature.

You question my objectivity, and as a matter of fact some of your innuendos are quite offensive and less than I would expect from an experienced professional.

Your veiled insults don't work around here. You hide behind your above average oratory and come across as magniloquent. While some of us may have to look up every word, others don't.

I DO question your objectivity. Anyone who consistently refers to a case where the officer in question was exonerated as justification for cleaning house of a department or agency is clearly not being objective. They are using a instance where, after extensive review, the applied use of force WAS appropriate, and further inclusion as a litmus test of the agency's competency is not only faulty reasoning, but clearly an attempt to invoke pathos into a shoddy justification for reorganization.

If you could "objectively" review my posts in this thread you will note I was only reacting or responding to accusations made by one member in particular. I tried not to "infer" beyond what was said unlike what has been done to my posts.

The only accusations is that your logic is faulty, and it IS. Using your logic, Valor should be fired from his job because some guy who has personal issues on the home front decided to drive his marked, take-home unit to another state and get sloshed, whereas upon his return he totaled it. One can question what he was thinking, but to disparage those that wear the same uniform for one person's actions is not only highly immature, but it is irresponsible.

I don't know if you are FBI or what, but using your logic, the FBI should have cleaned house after Robert Hanssen. After all, if one is bad, then surely the whole department must be also, for anyone with integrity would never allow anything like that to go on.

For those of us around LE for a while, we understand that sometimes good people make stupid decisions, sometimes great people make monumental gaffs, and sometimes, sh&t happens due to a momentary lapse in emotional control. That one moment in time where they screwed up does not justify replacing the entire squad, division, or agency. It does justify anyone responsible for the welfare, education, and discipline of that individual(s) to step forward and take corrective action, which was done in both the wheelchair case AND the boot camp case. No blind eye was turned, no silent acquiescence was made, and people's careers were damaged, destroyed, or terminated. I fail to see where you can justify an attack on anyone's integrity or oath to uphold the law based on these FACTS.

That sir, is why you have been publicly questioned and chastised. It's not personal, but your broad inclusions and inferences of a lack of integrity by some here crosses that line. Should you desire to remain of the inclination that us lowly law enforcement officers are not of the same caliber as thee in the ivory tower, there is nothing that we can do to change it. But it should remain in the back of your mind that we are all of the same blue cloth.

[BJJVad]

..of the same blue cloth.

My friend, I wear tan and green. :D

But you boys & gals in blue have my respect too.

[Aussie George]

I am staying out of this to an extent, but I do not see that BJJVad's placing of the "race card" graphic as anything other than a sarcastic shot at the likes of Jesse Jackson who will "show the race card" in any effort to promote their cause. I am sure, well I hope, that he is not a racist but merely annoyed at all the times that a minority group member is arrested and claims that it is due to their race, rather than their conduct or criminal behahiour.

I see all cops as blue and will stand by most until I have reason to decide other wise.

My friend, I wear tan and green. :D

But you boys & gals in blue have my respect too.

Oh wait a minute. Your one of those cops that don't wear blue!!! Oh you can go to hell!!!

















:D:D:DJ/K :p

[Cat_Doc]

My friend, I wear tan and green. :D

But you boys & gals in blue have my respect too.

I wore blue for twenty years, but am now tan & green. ;)

[Aussie George]

I wore blue for twenty years, but am now tan & green. ;)

Oh for the love of God!! Not another one!!! :p:D

[Cat_Doc]

Oh for the love of God!! Not another one!!! :p:D

Actually, over half my career has been spent in plain clothes; detective, U/C narcotics, special enforcement unit, homicide detective, professional standards detective, homicide unit supervisor, detective sergeant and administrative sergeant, but what do I know? :rolleyes:

I was going to ask if that would make me a rainbow, but you cowboys would throw in some butt pirate comments. :mad: :D :D :D :D

[Aussie George]

.... but you cowboys would throw in some butt pirate comments. :mad: :D :D :D :D

As if I would be so childish and immature to have any link to such a derogatory term as, how did you say it,...."butt pirate".

What an outrage.:p:D

[Red Hand]

Gaelic translation services provided:


“Things are not always as they seem!”



“You can’t make him think black is white.”


(Accuracy of translations is not guaranteed.) ;)

Bullseye !

Comhgairdeas (congratulations) mobrien. ;)