Can I please be issued one!

[Titansfanmjfink]

Yeah well you may actually want to train in an active shooter scenario befroe you dissrespect a verified Leo like that. Just because you stayed in a Hoiday Inn Express last night doesnt qualify in active shooter tactics.

I do not wish to argue, nor do I wish to spell out what training I have and havent received (I addressed it to you in a PM). I certainly do not mean to disrespect a veteran LEO or claim to know more. But would it would be more constructive for you to explain why you think someones viewpoint is wrong, rather than flame them about it. Especially someone with atleast a decent reputation and is known to not be a troll.

Why stop there then? What about the 203 with HE rounds or how about some 105 Arty. Think about it and it'll become clear why this isn't the weapon of choice for most policing situations. Mind you I'm just a lowly citizen but I have been in the military and I can tell you that in when we trained in urban combat fire discipline wasn't as critical as a police scenario I'll bet. This isn't the right tool for most jobs IMO.

My thinking was as follows... when used in single shot mode (apparently everyone assumed I mean using it fully auto in a school/mall/business and just "sprayin and prayin", which certainly isn't the case) it would serve simply as higher cap shotgun capable of carrying multiple types of rounds. This seems superior to the cruiser shotguns that would likely be used (at least by depts that dont have patrol rifles), simply due to its higher capacity. Not to mention many departments (at least in my area) are in the practice of carrying both shot and slugs in the magazine of their shotgun. The AA12 could do the same thing, except in a greater capacity. When going into a situation where there may be an unknown number of active shooters, wouldnt this be a nice feature?

Certainly if I'm missing something or overlooking something, let me know.

[mxwelch]

I do not wish to argue, nor do I wish to spell out what training I have and havent received (I addressed it to you in a PM). I certainly do not mean to disrespect a veteran LEO or claim to know more. But would it would be more constructive for you to explain why you think someones viewpoint is wrong, rather than flame them about it. Especially someone with atleast a decent reputation and is known to not be a troll.



My thinking was as follows... when used in single shot mode (apparently everyone assumed I mean using it fully auto in a school/mall/business and just "sprayin and prayin", which certainly isn't the case) it would serve simply as higher cap shotgun capable of carrying multiple types of rounds. This seems superior to the cruiser shotguns that would likely be used (at least by depts that dont have patrol rifles), simply due to its higher capacity. Not to mention many departments (at least in my area) are in the practice of carrying both shot and slugs in the magazine of their shotgun. The AA12 could do the same thing, except in a greater capacity. When going into a situation where there may be an unknown number of active shooters, wouldnt this be a nice feature?

Certainly if I'm missing something or overlooking something, let me know.

The hi-capacity mag is one feature that would be nice to have. As far as the different rounds it would be no different than a standard pump. Let's say you have a slug loaded up front but you need shot. You need to jack the slug out manually. It would be the same thing for the AA12. I'm not sure looking at the vid of just how difficult this would be. Also, from what I gather from listening to details of shootings it's a very stressful event and I'm not sure I'd like to depend on my finger depressing the trigger only for semi auto fire. If it were converted to select fire then it would far more acceptable.

[Cat_Doc]

Initial observation, in my opinion, is that this would be a great close quarter suppression weapon for the military; with the exception you might as well assign three or four men to the fire team just to carry additional ammunition for a true combat role.

It might be a good weapon for static defense duty such as at an armory, embassy, ingress point, etc.

I think the 200 yard claim is a bunch of salesmanship BS.

If I am utilizing a 12 gauge for police work, I would still prefer the vastly more streamlined and simplicity of the R-870 to this thing. (By the way, did anyone else notice the malfunction caught on tape? Nothing beats the simplicity of the pump action during a critical incident.)

Regarding the comment about going after an active shooter, Valor hit the nail on the head concerning the unpredictability of untrained civilians facing gunfire and mayhem. When they should be sucking the ground and trying to become invisible, they will often run right toward you because you are Mommy and Daddy coming to save the day.

This requires a much more disciplined trigger finger and more appropriate firearm than a machine fundamentally designed to place indiscriminate lead down range. This is the same reason we would not throw frag grenades down a school hallway trying to get the shooter.

You have to display tremendous courage, discipline, firearm control and accuracy in an active shooter scenario as opposed to overwhelming firepower and kill anything that moves in front of you in a military combat action.

I do not know of many police executives that would even give this thing a second thought. The military may just get a boner out the whole idea, with the exception of bulkiness of extra ammo.

My .2 cents worth.

[citcop]

I can't imagine trying to move through a building with that big gawdy thing. It's a neat toy with an amazing amount of firepower but I dont see where it's suited for LE aplications. Well, I can see it being used in extreme riot control possibly.

Cat's dead on with this. Overwhelming firepower is not your friend in an active shooter scenario. Speed, target recognition, and weapons discipline go a long way.
Give me my 870 or AR over this thing any day.

[Hockey9019]

I just want one to play with...:D

[citcop]

I just want one to play with...:D

I thought that the "something" you played with now takes up most of your time.


;)

[Roger Dat]

Cat Doc summed it up for me in a nutshell. As someone who trains extensively in active shooter scenarios yearly this is not the weapon for that.

[Hockey9019]

I thought that the "something" you played with now takes up most of your time.


;)

Don't be hatin/jealous :p


Don't you have some parties to go break up? :D

[mcsap]

It's a neat toy but the practical application for a patrol officer just isn't there.

[Norm357]

Initial observation, in my opinion, is that this would be a great close quarter suppression weapon for the military; with the exception you might as well assign three or four men to the fire team just to carry additional ammunition for a true combat role.

It might be a good weapon for static defense duty such as at an armory, embassy, ingress point, etc.

I think the 200 yard claim is a bunch of salesmanship BS.

If I am utilizing a 12 gauge for police work, I would still prefer the vastly more streamlined and simplicity of the R-870 to this thing. (By the way, did anyone else notice the malfunction caught on tape? Nothing beats the simplicity of the pump action during a critical incident.)

Regarding the comment about going after an active shooter, Valor hit the nail on the head concerning the unpredictability of untrained civilians facing gunfire and mayhem. When they should be sucking the ground and trying to become invisible, they will often run right toward you because you are Mommy and Daddy coming to save the day.

This requires a much more disciplined trigger finger and more appropriate firearm than a machine fundamentally designed to place indiscriminate lead down range. This is the same reason we would not throw frag grenades down a school hallway trying to get the shooter.

You have to display tremendous courage, discipline, firearm control and accuracy in an active shooter scenario as opposed to overwhelming firepower and kill anything that moves in front of you in a military combat action.

I do not know of many police executives that would even give this thing a second thought. The military may just get a boner out the whole idea, with the exception of bulkiness of extra ammo.

My .2 cents worth.

Cat Doc is indeed a wise Man.

[Titansfanmjfink]

If I am utilizing a 12 gauge for police work, I would still prefer the vastly more streamlined and simplicity of the R-870 to this thing. (By the way, did anyone else notice the malfunction caught on tape? Nothing beats the simplicity of the pump action during a critical incident.)

I didn't catch that the first time around, lol, I guess the editors missed that.

Regarding the comment about going after an active shooter, Valor hit the nail on the head concerning the unpredictability of untrained civilians facing gunfire and mayhem. When they should be sucking the ground and trying to become invisible, they will often run right toward you because you are Mommy and Daddy coming to save the day.

This requires a much more disciplined trigger finger and more appropriate firearm than a machine fundamentally designed to place indiscriminate lead down range. This is the same reason we would not throw frag grenades down a school hallway trying to get the shooter.

That is true, watching the video I must've missed the part where it discussed how it is used semi-auto vs. full auto (length of trigger pull). Thats definately not what you need in an active shooter.

So now... humbled, I retract my dumba$$ statement, lol. :( (Hey, we all make a stupid statement now and then)

[mcsap]

I didn't catch that the first time around, lol, I guess the editors missed that.



That is true, watching the video I must've missed the part where it discussed how it is used semi-auto vs. full auto (length of trigger pull). Thats definately not what you need in an active shooter.

So now... humbled, I retract my dumba$$ statement, lol. :( (Hey, we all make a stupid statement now and then)

Some are just more proficient at it than others

[Titansfanmjfink]

Fair enough, lol.

[limeade]

Want! WANT NOW!