Can Coasties Carry...

[Ronnin]

Well since the following was signed by President Bush a few years back this topic has been brought up pretty often around the scuttle...What's your take on it?

Do USCG members (whom hold current BO qualification with current weapon quals on record) fall under this new law?

it does state qaulified LEO's is construed to be employees of any governmental agency. Federal/State and local. And TECHNICALLY speaking the USCG has Federal jurisdiction.

Now by no means am i saying the Coast Guard will allow their members to conceal carry any time soon, just wondering what ya'll think about this:

Here's the law:

NATIONAL CONCEALED CARRY FOR Law Enforcement Officers WILL BECOME LAW!



SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004'.

SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following:

Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following:

926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers.

SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following:

926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.

Section 5845 of the National Firearms Act .
Definitions:

(b) Machinegun - The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designedpar to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the controlpar of a person.

U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 921

(a) As used in this chapter -

(3) The term ''firearm'' means

(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or

(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

(4) The term ''destructive device'' means -

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas -

(i) bomb,

(ii) grenade,

(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,

(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,

(v) mine, or

(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term ''destructive device'' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes.

(24) The terms ''firearm silencer'' and ''firearm muffler'' mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

[Super Six 5]

Nope.

They're not law enforcement officers. They're members of the United States Military. Military police and Security Forces members are not covered by HR 218 either.

Those persons can certainly obtain a CCW permit and carry a firearm within accordance of their state laws.

[chiefhuntr]

^^^^^^^what He Said^^^^^^^^^




N O P E

[Ronnin]

Nope.

They're not law enforcement officers. They're members of the United States Military. Military police and Security Forces members are not covered by HR 218 either.

Those persons can certainly obtain a CCW permit and carry a firearm within accordance of their state laws.

But technically speaking, every NCO in the USCG is considered a federal agent...TECHNICALLY. (i'm not saying every NCO is a federal agent) what i'm saying is by the books once you pin on PO3 you are a federal agent. Which is why we are able to do Law Enforecement missions (this is what the discussions are always about - we are federal agents, we do LE, but we're not kinda thing)

[Norm357]

The Coast Guard fall under the Dept of Homeland Security, not the Dept of Defense.


Just throwing that little monkey wrench in this debate.;)

[JakeLock]

But technically speaking, every NCO in the USCG is considered a federal agent...TECHNICALLY.

I'm not going to argue with you on this since I don't know, but why would they be considered federal agents? I understand the ability to perform LE activities, but any group in the military might be called up for LE duties, New Orleans anyone?

I would have to agree that law would no more apply to the CG than it would to me in the AF. Regardless of the schools we go to, LE training is different than any military training. I'm qualified to carry an M-16/M-4 but it doesn't make me qualified to carry it any time I want.

[Super Six 5]

The Coast Guard fall under the Dept of Homeland Security, not the Dept of Defense.


Just throwing that little monkey wrench in this debate.;)

Though it falls under the DOHS since 2003, it's still a department of the military. According to http://www.uscg.mil/top/about/ :

The United States Coast Guard (USCG) is a military branch of the United States involved in maritime law, mariner assistance, and search and rescue, among other duties of coast guards elsewhere. One of the seven uniformed services of the United States, and the smallest armed service of the United States, its stated mission is to protect the public, the environment, and the United States economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and America's coasts, ports, and inland waterways.

USCG has a broad and important role in homeland security, law enforcement, search and rescue, marine environmental pollution response, and the maintenance of river, intracoastal and offshore aids to navigation (ATON). It also lays claim to being the United States' oldest continuous seagoing service. The United States Coast Guard has about 40,150 men and women on active duty.

The Coast Guard's motto is Semper Paratus, meaning "Always Ready".

The Coast Guard's roots lie in the Revenue Cutter Service, which was founded on August 4, 1790 as part of the Department of the Treasury. An act of the U.S. Congress created the Coast Guard in 1915, with the merger of the Revenue Cutter Service and the United States Lifesaving Service. The United States Lighthouse Service was merged into the Coast Guard in 1939. The legal basis for the Coast Guard is Title 14 of the United States Code, which states: "The Coast Guard as established January 28, 1915, shall be a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times." Upon the declaration of war or when the President directs, the Coast Guard operates under the authority of the Department of the Navy. The Coast Guard later moved to the Department of Transportation in 1967, and on February 25, 2003 it became part of the Department of Homeland Security.

As members of a military service, Coast Guardsmen on active and reserve service are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice and receive the same pay and allowances as members of the same pay grades in the other four armed services

[JakeLock]

The Coast Guard fall under the Dept of Homeland Security, not the Dept of Defense.


Just throwing that little monkey wrench in this debate.;)

But they fall under DOD in times of war if the President (I believe) decrees it...

edit: dammit, Six beat me to it... Go boomstick!

[Super Six 5]

But technically speaking, every NCO in the USCG is considered a federal agent...TECHNICALLY. (i'm not saying every NCO is a federal agent) what i'm saying is by the books once you pin on PO3 you are a federal agent. Which is why we are able to do Law Enforecement missions (this is what the discussions are always about - we are federal agents, we do LE, but we're not kinda thing)

You're not Federal Agents. You are military employees tasked with the security of The United States Coastal waters. No matter which way you twist or turn it, HR 218 does not cover the coast guard. I can guarantee that if you start carrying firearms across state lines without the proper permits, you're going to find yourself in a heap of trouble.

[Norm357]

Though it falls under the DOHS since 2003, it's still a department of the military. According to http://www.uscg.mil/top/about/ :

But they fall under DOD in times of war if the President (I believe) decrees it...

I know this, but it has no relevance to the topic at hand.

While I think the OP is wrong, it is a valid question since in at least, modern times, the Coast Guard has been used more as an SAR and LE agency than a Military one.

[Norm357]

You're not Federal Agents. You are military employees tasked with the security of The United States Coastal waters. No matter which way you twist or turn it, HR 218 does not cover the coast guard. I can guarantee that if you start carrying firearms across state lines without the proper permits, you're going to find yourself in a heap of trouble.

In Ga (and it's the only State that I know of that does this.) Military members can carry on creds just like the police. No CCW necessary. Neat huh.;)

[JakeLock]

In Ga (and it's the only State that I know of that does this.) Military members can carry on creds just like the police. No CCW necessary. Neat huh.;)

Can you show me that in writing normy? And does that apply to active duty only? or do reserve and guard fall under that. And does it only apply to certain branches?

Also, does it mean if I'm quald on the m-9 I can carry a sidearm? But if I'm only quald on the m-16 I can't? Clarity please...

Sorry to hijack.

[Super Six 5]

I know this, but it has no relevance to the topic at hand.

While I think the OP is wrong, it is a valid question since in at least, modern times, the Coast Guard has been used more as an SAR and LE agency than a Military one.

Regardless of what it's more often used as, it is classified as a department of the military. If and when they decide to change that, there will be alot of pissed off people who are no longer getting their veteran's benefits.

If I primarily use a watering can to put out a campfire in my yard rather than using it to water plants, isn't it still a watering can? Or is it now a piece of firefighting apparatus?

[Norm357]

Can you show me that in writing normy? And does that apply to active duty only? or do reserve and guard fall under that. And does it only apply to certain branches?

Glad you asked. I have won many a bar bet with this one. Simply put, if you work for the "G" you can carry on creds. My favorite one is court clerk.:D


Georgia Code 16-11-130

16-11-130 G
*** CODE SECTION *** 12/03/01

16-11-130.

(a) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or
affect any of the following persons if such persons are employed in
the offices listed below or when authorized by federal or state law,
regulations, or order:

(1) Peace officers, as such term is defined in paragraph (11) of
Code Section 16-1-3, and retired peace officers so long as they
remain certified whether employed by the state or a political
subdivision of the state or another state or a political
subdivision of another state but only if such other state provides
a similar privilege for the peace officers of this state;

(2) Wardens, superintendents, and keepers of correctional
institutions, jails, or other institutions for the detention of
persons accused or convicted of an offense;

(3) Persons in the military service of the state or of the United
States;

(4) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the
government of the United States or agencies thereof when
possession of the weapon is necessary for manufacture, transport,
installation, and testing under the requirements of such contract;

(5) District attorneys, investigators employed by and assigned to
a district attorney's office, assistant district attorneys,
attorneys employed by the Prosecuting Attorneys' Council of
Georgia, and any retired district attorney, assistant district
attorney, or district attorneys investigator if such retired
employee is receiving benefits under Title 47 or is retired in
good standing and receiving benefits from a county or municipal
retirement system;

(6) State court solicitors-general; investigators employed by and
assigned to a state court solicitor-general's office; assistant
state court solicitors-general; the corresponding personnel of any
city court expressly continued in existence as a city court
pursuant to Article VI, Section X, Paragraph I, subparagraph (5)
of the Constitution; and the corresponding personnel of any civil
court expressly continued as a civil court pursuant to said
provision of the Constitution;

(7) Those employees of the State Board of Pardons and Paroles when
specifically designated and authorized in writing by the members
of the State Board of Pardons and Paroles to carry a weapon;

(8) The Attorney General and those members of his or her staff
whom he or she specifically authorizes in writing to carry a
weapon;

(9) Chief probation officers, probation officers, intensive
probation officers, and surveillance officers employed by and
under the authority of the Department of Corrections pursuant to
Article 2 of Chapter 8 of Title 42, known as the "State-wide
Probation Act," when specifically designated and authorized in
writing by the director of Division of Probation;

(10) Public safety directors of municipal corporations;
(11) Explosive ordnance disposal technicians, as such term is
defined by Code Section 16-7-80, and persons certified as provided
in Code Section 35-8-13 to handle animals trained to detect
explosives, while in the performance of their duties;

(12) State and federal trial and appellate judges, full-time
judges of municipal and city courts, and former state trial and
appellate judges retired from their respective offices under state
retirement;

(13) United States Attorneys and Assistant United States
Attorneys;

(14) County medical examiners and coroners and their sworn
officers employed by county government; and

(15) Clerks of the superior courts.

(b) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or
affect persons who at the time of their retirement from service with
the Department of Corrections were chief probation officers,
probation officers, intensive probation officers, or surveillance
officers, when specifically designated and authorized in writing by
the director of Division of Probation.

(c) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or
affect any:

(1) Sheriff, retired sheriff, deputy sheriff, or retired deputy
sheriff if such retired deputy sheriff is receiving benefits under
the Peace Officers' Annuity and Benefit Fund provided under
Chapter 17 of Title 47;

(2) Member of the Georgia State Patrol or agent of the Georgia
Bureau of Investigation or retired member of the Georgia State
Patrol or agent of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation if such
retired member or agent is receiving benefits under the Employees'
Retirement System;

(3) Full-time law enforcement chief executive engaging in the
management of a county, municipal, state, state authority, or
federal law enforcement agency in the State of Georgia, including
any college or university law enforcement chief executive that is
registered or certified by the Peace Officer Standards and
Training Council; or retired law enforcement chief executive that
formerly managed a county, municipal, state, state authority, or
federal law enforcement agency in the State of Georgia, including
any college or university law enforcement chief executive that was
registered or certified at the time of his or her retirement by
the Peace Officer Standards and Training Council, if such retired
law enforcement chief executive is receiving benefits under the
Peace Officers' Annuity and Benefit Fund provided under Chapter 17
of Title 47 or is retired in good standing and receiving benefits
from a county, municipal, State of Georgia, state authority, or
federal retirement system; or

(4) Police officer of any county, municipal, state, state
authority, or federal law enforcement agency in the State of
Georgia, including any college or university police officer that
is registered or certified by the Peace Officer Standards and
Training Council, or retired police officer of any county,
municipal, state, state authority, or federal law enforcement
agency in the State of Georgia, including any college or
university police officer that was registered or certified at the
time of his or her retirement by the Peace Officer Standards and
Training Council, if such retired employee is receiving benefits
under the Peace Officers' Annuity and Benefit Fund provided under
Chapter 17 of Title 47 or is retired in good standing and
receiving benefits from a county, municipal, State of Georgia,
state authority, or federal retirement system.

In addition, any such sheriff, retired sheriff, deputy sheriff,
retired deputy sheriff, active or retired law enforcement chief
executive, or other law enforcement officer referred to in this
subsection shall be authorized to carry a pistol or revolver on or
off duty anywhere within the state and the provisions of Code
Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to the carrying
of such firearms.

[Norm357]

Regardless of what it's more often used as, it is classified as a department of the military. If and when they decide to change that, there will be alot of pissed off people who are no longer getting their veteran's benefits.

If I primarily use a watering can to put out a campfire in my yard rather than using it to water plants, isn't it still a watering can? Or is it now a piece of firefighting apparatus?

It still was a valid question. That's all Im sayin.