Pursuit ends in fatality

[codered]

Shall I give an opinion here, or, shall we move this subject to the verified arena?

[oscarmitre]

I think it's good to keep the discussion open. Our local newspaper (this incident happened in my jurisdiction) ran this for a long while online and the overwhelming number of online opinions absolutely flogged the offenders and demanded the government do something about it and supported the police. Only a couple of voices queried police action. It's a very hot topic here.

Strangely enough since this terrible incident the activities of the group in question seem to have quietened down....

So all in all I think if anyone has an opinion then it's best shared with all members on the site.

[coucousis]

Sad to see that in Australia Cops are also targeted for vehicular pursuit that criminals initiate.

As I always said... our societies have to take a stand about them and punish severely... but I mean really severly who ever is forcing the cops to start a vehicular pursuit.

A mandatory jail term no less then 5 years should be impose at first offence. I'm sure that some knucle head would think about it before pressing down the accelerator.

[Aussie George]

I think it's good to keep the discussion open. Our local newspaper (this incident happened in my jurisdiction) ran this for a long while online and the overwhelming number of online opinions absolutely flogged the offenders and demanded the government do something about it and supported the police. Only a couple of voices queried police action. It's a very hot topic here.

Strangely enough since this terrible incident the activities of the group in question seem to have quietened down....

So all in all I think if anyone has an opinion then it's best shared with all members on the site.

Glad to see that there was support in the media for a change.

I guess finally people have had enough of these maggots just running around doing what they like. Hopefully that support might filter through to the courts system eventually.

[oscarmitre]

Especially this lot - all Mandrake targets - and the media really made a big thing about that, it was very good education for the public :D

[Firestorm]

But let's not forget they have rights and we can't just pick on them. Oh, and heaven forbid if any of them actually got any jail time. We couldn't have that, or we might be accused of being racists!!

Skin color, nationality, or race should not matter to anyone in the world. If you do the crime, you do the time. Isn't that the motto?

Certain people today make me sick. Why? Because apparently, people are protected by their race to do whatever they want to do, whether it be crime of murder, rape, and what not.

Now I'm not a cop, but if I was, and if there was a person like that causing crime, I'd arrest them. Who cares if I'm accused of being racist? I'd rather be accused of something not true, then allow a criminal to wreck havoc upon the world.

[Mr. Peanut]

Wow, and I thought the race card playing was bad here in the states. Sounds like it's a huge problem down under. Our system at least pretends to treat all the bad guys the same.

[Aussie George]

Wow, and I thought the race card playing was bad here in the states. Sounds like it's a huge problem down under. Our system at least pretends to treat all the bad guys the same.

It is a problem down here.

I don't buy into it and when I get the usual comment, "You are only arresting me coz i am ...(insert minority group label here)..."

I usually reply, "No I am arresting you coz you are an idiot. I couldn't care less what colour you are."

I feel sorry for those in these communities that never have need for Police attention and are labelled by those who are just total losers and give the others a bad name. I keep an open mind with everyone and not judge by first appearances.

It annoys me that some of these people use their race and up bringing as an excuse for being a loser. It's not only pathetic, it's total disrespectful to the race they are supposedly so proud of.

If you want to get hung up about all the mistakes made by previous generations and use that as an excuse as to why you can't get your pathetic life in order (regardless of race) then here's a tip:

Go to your local hardware store, buy a heap of timber and nails, build a bridge and...


GET OVER IT!!!!

Rant over.

[codered]

Especially this lot - all Mandrake targets - and the media really made a big thing about that, it was very good education for the public :D

As an informational tool, yes, a pursuit that ends in tragedy should be made public(should enrage).
Maybe, even emergency legislation should be enacted, to ensure proper term lengths that offenders should receive.

However, in the States, the current pursuit policy is under review by the Supreme Court....in reference to a pursuit that occured outside of Atlanta Ga, involving a ramming by police that resulted in the paralyzing of an individual.
Charges have been made against the officer, in regards to "unreasonable search and seizure."
The defense argues that his client did flee, from speeding...yet he(the defendent) was afraid, and should not have been a victim of deadly force to stop.

My point is simple.
Should we, as LE,coninue to pursue for simple traffic infractions? I think not.

Many idiots do flee from simple traffic infractions, I did give chase from a person I knew that was wanted for 4 felonies this past summer( he was caught 2 months later, including my fleeing charge, without incident...in a house).
Furthermore, I did give chase to an improper plate on a car this past Thursday.... I called the chase off, the car did get away, no one was hurt.

Idiots do flee, and the result can be tragedy.

Unless we in the LE forum, are backed by law to continue such chases...I do not see why we should continue such chases(furthermore, I think that they are dangerous for the public).

just my .02
flame me if you wish

[oscarmitre]

Eminently sensible and practical. The policy in my organisation is actually really sensible and fortunately the troops and the supervisors in the field have internalised it. Where work I'm one of the people responsible for monitoring and if necessary ordering a termination of pursuits. I haven't had to terminate one in 12 months because either the patrol or the supervisor know when it's just not worth it. The life of an innocent person or their welbeing just isn't worth the pursuit. Strangely enough with the way we do it - the policy I mean - patrols end up going around and arresting the offender later if they get sufficient identification. If they don't then, no worries, at least someone not involved in the incident didn't end up in the morgue or in the hospital annexe we have for brain-damaged road collision victims.

So, codered, I agree, yours is a wise view, if I may say so.

[Aussie George]

Unless we in the LE forum, are backed by law to continue such chases...I do not see why we should continue such chases(furthermore, I think that they are dangerous for the public).

I have been in a few pursuits, and I agree they are dangerous, and the onus is always put on us as the responsible party, despite having very little control over what the driver of another car is doing. I agree that unless the laws are set up to protect us, instead of crucify us, in the event of an accident, then pursuits should be avoided.

The only problem I see with a policy that states that a pursuit will be terminated if this, this or this happens, is that the crooks learn this.

I recall reading the SAPOL intranet in relation to pursuits back in South Oz, and was amazed at just how often you would read, "the pursuit was terminated when the offender turned their lights off." I just got the feeling after a cople of dozen of these that the crooks knew that once they turned their lights off or crossed onto the wrong side of the road a few times (regardless if their was oncoming traffic) then they got away.

I agree with Oscarmitre that once a pursuit policy was implemented, it was adopted by the troops and used smartly. Where I now work, the Comms operator calls out over the radio, "If there is any undue risk to members of the public then you are to terminate the pursuit immediately. (or similar)" The lead pursuit vehicle is to acknowledge this and then can make their own mind up. I find this grossly offensive. Not only is it a blatant butt covering exercise so that if something goes wrong they can say, "well we warned 'em." but it goes wihtout saying. And it takes up valuable radio time during the start of a pursuit when you are trying to arrange for other patrols, cordons, road spikes, etc.

I am just worried that if we stop pursuing, it sends a dangerous message. Anyone can committ any offence and all they have to do is get in a car and they are home free. Sure it is not worth killing someone or dying over a traffic ticket, but how many times do you stop a car just because it looks like a dirtbag? They haven't done anything wrong yet. Soon as you stop them, you find out they have warrants, no rego, no licence, they are drunk, there is a body in the boot, etc.

Wasn't Timothy McVeigh stopped due to a routine traffic stop?
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_k...gh/snag_2.html

[codered]

Many routine traffic stops have yeilded considerable results(including McViegh).
I do not dought this.
My point is that many that refuse to stop, have yeilded in injury, paralysis, and death.

I have no problem with LE that pursue, as LONG as WE are quaranteed immunity that we will not be held accountable(criminally or suite wise). Does anyone HERE see this? I think not.


The Supreme Court ruling is pending........we shall see.