Rabbi goes Lights and Sirens in POV....!!

[Metsfan4790]

I don't want to start some huge argument, but as a member of the Jewish community, I feel compelled to give a few answers to things which have said about Hatzolah. NOTE: I AM NOT CURRENTLY, NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A MEMBER OF HATZOLAH.

1) Hatzolah exists because of special points of Jewish law which regulate medical services. Hatzolah is supported by the Jewish community because they follow these points. This does not negate the FDNY in NY (or some other FD/EMS in another locality), the following of these religious points merely is a plus for Hatzolah in the eyes of many Jews. Some people also have a comfort factor in being treated by someone who is of the same background, similar life experiences, similar education, and similar upbringing. This may not be politically correct because it is not inclusive of everyone, but it is true to one degree or another. The attitude the Hatzolah is some super-secret, just for Jews medical organization is birthed in the clash of cultures between the religious Jewish culture and all other cultures.

2) Hatzolah does not have a "super secret number" which "is only provided to others who are Jewish." Anyone can call their local Hatzolah (provided there is one in your city/township/county) and request the number. The reason why the number isn't directly available is because of fear of anti-Semitism. If the number was made available people would make false calls on both weekdays and specifically on the Jewish sabbath. Some anti-Semitic people may also call Hatzolah personnel out only to then assault and/or harm them. Call this paranoid if you want, but hatred to this degree is out there. I wear a yarmulke [Jewish skullcap worn by males] and am only in high school, and I've already received death threats and have been assaulted. To be honest, not putting up the Hatzolah emergency number is a fundamental safety issue. Publicizing it would be asking for trouble.

3) When arriving at the scene of something Hatzolah does not completely disregard a non-Jewish person. Does Hatzolah pick up more Jews than non-Jews, of course, but this is because generally only Jews will call Hatzolah. In the incident cited above where the 14 year-old boy with trauma was not treated immediately, could Hatzolah have been waiting for FDNY which may have been very close to arriving. Additionally, if the Hatzolah responder didn't have an ambulance, there was little, if anything he could have done for someone with massive trauma. Why risk doing even more harm and not just wait for a FDNY ambulance.

4) Hatzolah EMT's and Dr.'s are fully trained in accordance to whatever regulations govern a locality. It's not like Hatzolah is a bunch of pretend medical professionals who do nothing but mess around and waste time. There have been countless incidents where they have saved lives. This leads to my point 4.

5) While some Hatzolah vehicles are personal vehicles with lights, Hatzolah organizations around the world have many, many fully equipped ambulances.One example is on 9/11; Hatzolah personnel and ambulances were among those at the towers, as well as on the scene in the days following 9/11 (They helped far more non-Jews then Jews those days). Hatzolah's was cited by a commanding officer in the Manhattan Fire Marshal's Office for saving many lives (non-Jewish lives and Jewish lives alike)

6) Not all Hatzolah members respond to incidents in ambulances. This is why Hatzolah members have lights in their vehicles. Sometimes a Hatzolah Dr. must respond to a call and he only has his own vehicle. Responding in their own vehicle allows for the much faster response time (Usually 2.5-4 min, depending on the Hatzolah organization).

7) Hatzolah does not necessarily respond to complaints by calling the complainer "an Anti-Semite." It all depends on how the complaint is brought up. If an issue is reasonably discussed this attitude won't happen. But often times, the heat of the moment comes in and turns what may have been a mild-mannered complaint into a far different one. Heat of the moment also goes both ways too. A mild-mannered complaint may be mis-interpreted into something else. If you confront a Hatzolah member while he/she is working the complaint may, and probably will, be mis-interpreted. How would you feel if you were right in the middle of the call and someone stopped you and started criticizing all your moves and making very rash allegations? My guess is that as a human being, you would get a bit agitated and defensive.


I'm not saying Hatzolah is perfect, nothing is, but it is not some evil Jewish conspiracy organization either.

[Joeyd6]

1) Hatzolah exists because of special points of Jewish law which regulate medical services. Hatzolah is supported by the Jewish community because they follow these points. This does not negate the FDNY in NY (or some other FD/EMS in another locality), the following of these religious points merely is a plus for Hatzolah in the eyes of many Jews. Some people also have a comfort factor in being treated by someone who is of the same background, similar life experiences, similar education, and similar upbringing. This may not be politically correct because it is not inclusive of everyone, but it is true to one degree or another. The attitude the Hatzolah is some super-secret, just for Jews medical organization is birthed in the clash of cultures between the religious Jewish culture and all other cultures.

-->Point is that if a group of white Catholics did this...it would be labled as facist/racist. So no....it IS an elitist attitude that has been forced into acceptance. No other religion or culture in NYC has doen such and if teh tried, they would be labled forever!

2) Hatzolah does not have a "super secret number" which "is only provided to others who are Jewish." Anyone can call their local Hatzolah (provided there is one in your city/township/county) and request the number. The reason why the number isn't directly available is because of fear of anti-Semitism. If the number was made available people would make false calls on both weekdays and specifically on the Jewish sabbath. Some anti-Semitic people may also call Hatzolah personnel out only to then assault and/or harm them. Call this paranoid if you want, but hatred to this degree is out there. I wear a yarmulke [Jewish skullcap worn by males] and am only in high school, and I've already received death threats and have been assaulted. To be honest, not putting up the Hatzolah emergency number is a fundamental safety issue. Publicizing it would be asking for trouble.

--> If a non-jewish person calls, they will be referrred to 911 for general EMS! They will not respond. I worked the streets in well cultured area. And I am going on the record now: There is 200% more racism out there than any anti-semitism in NYC! Just beacuse you wear a yarmulke and are beat up, has nothing to do with yoru religion. It is that exact misconeption that adds to the problem. Many your males in my precint wore a cross on their neck and were beat up. Was that because of their religion? NO....kids beat kids up over looks, attitude and every other thing kids get picked on. And I would love to hear where an ambulance crew has been called on a false call and beat up in NYC...

3) When arriving at the scene of something Hatzolah does not completely disregard a non-Jewish person. Does Hatzolah pick up more Jews than non-Jews, of course, but this is because generally only Jews will call Hatzolah. In the incident cited above where the 14 year-old boy with trauma was not treated immediately, could Hatzolah have been waiting for FDNY which may have been very close to arriving. Additionally, if the Hatzolah responder didn't have an ambulance, there was little, if anything he could have done for someone with massive trauma. Why risk doing even more harm and not just wait for a FDNY ambulance.

What you stated is 100% against every time I have seen them on scene at a call during 3 yeasr on the street! Plain and simple, they have ALWAYS went to the Jewish member first, despite injury. I have been a NYS EMT since 1993. Every EMS responder knows what TRIAGE is. The most critical get the first care, even if it is head stabilization. YOU DO NOT NEED ALS TO PROVIDE care! On top of that, to qualify for those red lights, you are supposed to be able to reposnd and TREAT any emergency! Their behavior and actions by passing him up (with trauma) for the Jewish women (in shock and uninjured) was elitist and discriminatory!

4) Hatzolah EMT's and Dr.'s are fully trained in accordance to whatever regulations govern a locality. It's not like Hatzolah is a bunch of pretend medical professionals who do nothing but mess around and waste time. There have been countless incidents where they have saved lives. This leads to my point 4.

So is every EMT out there. NYS has thousands. Again, they do not decorate their car with so many lights it can be seen from space. Plus, FDNY EMS responds within 3 minutes with ALS every time in NYC and is very professional and provides adequate care for all despite race, culture, employment, economy, etc....

5) While some Hatzolah vehicles are personal vehicles with lights, Hatzolah organizations around the world have many, many fully equipped ambulances.One example is on 9/11; Hatzolah personnel and ambulances were among those at the towers, as well as on the scene in the days following 9/11 (They helped far more non-Jews then Jews those days). Hatzolah's was cited by a commanding officer in the Manhattan Fire Marshal's Office for saving many lives (non-Jewish lives and Jewish lives alike)

On 9/11, I will absolutely agree. Hatzolah did work 200% and help anyone they could, just like very othe ragency did that day!

6) Not all Hatzolah members respond to incidents in ambulances. This is why Hatzolah members have lights in their vehicles. Sometimes a Hatzolah Dr. must respond to a call and he only has his own vehicle. Responding in their own vehicle allows for the much faster response time (Usually 2.5-4 min, depending on the Hatzolah organization).

You need to visit Manhattan where you will have 10 people respond for a call, even after three units call on scene. Yet for the next 10-15 minutes, people come blarring with their lights and sirens. Unnecessary. Even for a code! The most I want at a code 4 people: one blowing, one pumping. the medic calling the shots and somebody pulling and loading meds/defib. More than that is useless!

7) Hatzolah does not necessarily respond to complaints by calling the complainer "an Anti-Semite." It all depends on how the complaint is brought up. If an issue is reasonably discussed this attitude won't happen. But often times, the heat of the moment comes in and turns what may have been a mild-mannered complaint into a far different one. Heat of the moment also goes both ways too. A mild-mannered complaint may be mis-interpreted into something else. If you confront a Hatzolah member while he/she is working the complaint may, and probably will, be mis-interpreted. How would you feel if you were right in the middle of the call and someone stopped you and started criticizing all your moves and making very rash allegations? My guess is that as a human being, you would get a bit agitated and defensive.

I'm not saying Hatzolah is perfect, nothing is, but it is not some evil Jewish conspiracy organization either.

Nobody said it was a conspiracy! It was explained as it has operated and is/was observed by me for 3 years! I have seen BLS Hatzolah at codes with equipment and refuse to open the door to the NYPD and FDNY EMS (with ALS equipment), while they waited for they own ALS minutes away. I watched one incident where FDNY arrived as first responders, then NYPD, then FDNY EMS. No ALS inside and Hatzolah locked the apartment door. They refused to let anyone in stating they were fine. FDNY took the door and physically removed Hatzolah....who then started in to my partner and myself how we were all a bunch of "anti-semitics." No!! What I am, along with everyone else there is a person who is concerned about saving a life, despite, color, race and religion. I know when I do not have the equipment necessary, I step aside and let those who do in to work.

Central Park Medical (all volunteer) responds all over Manhattan North. They are all volunteers also. They NEVER have any problem with anyone. Why? They treat everyone equal, with the most injured getting first care, and they IMMEDIATELY transfer care when a higher level provider arrives. If that logic was applied throughout, with every EMS/FIRE/POLICE organization, there would be no problems!

I don't want to start some huge argument.......

LOL! We are not arguing at all! I hope we can share our experiences and views. We all have different ones based on our experiences. Nobody is right or worng. What we have done and know to be true is exactly that for each of us, the truth! I have no probelms with Hatzolah or any other EMS organization. It is a tough job and they do a good job. I just think a few bad people are making a bad name and reflection of the organization and that never gets addressed! Some squads also operate different than others. I know how Manhattan works. My friends in NJ deal with a different squad/unit (not sure the official name) and he states they are aces every time and cooperate with all agencies!

[Super Six 5]

How would you feel if you were right in the middle of the call and someone stopped you and started criticizing all your moves and making very rash allegations?

This happens everytime I step out of the car. Sometimes I don't even need to step out of the car. Everyone knows how to do my job better than I do. That's one of the burdens I bear as a police officer.

[DeadEye]

And if Super Six 5 is having a really bad day, us civilians come on the RP as well ;).

[Norm357]

Civilians.:rolleyes:

[suzanne1020U.S.]

Hey, wouldn't it be great if Hatzolah joined forces with Dominoes Pizza???!!!
If finely tuned, the average American could be looking at two pizzas delivered in ...hmmm, 5 minute record time?!!
Jews and non-Jews would be meeting each other half way in this creative venture leading to quite possibly world wide peace.:D

Sorry, I just wanted to lighten up things up, hope you all don't mind.

Peace

[Lawson]

Hey, wouldn't it be great if Hatzolah joined forces with Dominoes Pizza???!!!
If finely tuned, the average American could be looking at two pizzas delivered in ...hmmm, 5 minute record time?!!
Jews and non-Jews would be meeting each other half way in this creative venture leading to quite possibly world wide peace.:D

Sorry, I just wanted to lighten up things up, hope you all don't mind.

Peace

Would the pizza have to be Kosher? :D

[suzanne1020U.S.]

Would the pizza have to be Kosher? :D

You know what, you're totally right.
Ok, so revised plan....Kosher and non Kosher menus.
I think you and I are on to something BIG!:D

[nypd7748]

I never really looked into this before but I was looking at the NYS Health Law and these are the definitions I found:

Ambulance service means a person engaged in providing emergency medical services and the transportation of sick, disabled or injured persons by motor vehicle, aircraft or other form of transportation to facilities providing hospital services.

Emergency ambulance service vehicle means a vehicle that is owned or operated by an ambulance service that is used to transport emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons

An emergency vehicle is defined as a police vehicle, ambulance or fire truck.

One or more red or combination red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be affixed to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency.
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So the way I understand this by looking at all these definitions is that any New York State EMT can equip his/her POV with a red light and siren in order to respond to the scene of an emergency or bring equipment to the scene. Maybe a NYS Trooper or a Highway guy can shed more light on this.