Police brass split hairs over beards

[retdetsgt]

I am of the opinion that facial hair other than a neatly trimed mustache just does not look good with a uniform.

I don't have nearly as much problem with that as I do seeing detectives in causal clothes. I am a dinosaur in that I believe in detectives wearing a coat and tie.

We talk constantly about wanting to be looked at as professionals, but dress like someone going on a picnic than a police detective. I dressed down on some limited occasions (midnight homicide scenes), but always found I was treated with more respect and had far fewer resists when I was dressed in slacks, coat and tie.

My experience is that the public doesn't look much past the uniform itself, but they do judge police in plain clothes.

[Creeker]

I am of the opinion that facial hair other than a neatly trimed mustache just does not look good with a uniform.

I am of the same opinion, and short pants as well.:rolleyes:

[DetSarg1]

I don't have nearly as much problem with that as I do seeing detectives in causal clothes. I am a dinosaur in that I believe in detectives wearing a coat and tie.

We talk constantly about wanting to be looked at as professionals, but dress like someone going on a picnic than a police detective. I dressed down on some limited occasions (midnight homicide scenes), but always found I was treated with more respect and had far fewer resists when I was dressed in slacks, coat and tie.

My experience is that the public doesn't look much past the uniform itself, but they do judge police in plain clothes.

We agree once again retdetsgt. Although we don’t wear jackets because of the Florida heat, all of our detectives wear shirt and tie as part of their regular dress.

They are allowed to wear Dockers and polo shirts for late night call outs unless they are the lead or co-lead on a confirmed homicide. Then they wear shirt and tie. That was actually the decision of the major crime detectives themselves. They could wear a polo but choose to treat a homicide with the utmost professionalism. I’m so proud of my guys.

Our department policy does not allow for any officer (except narcs), uniformed or plain clothes, to have a beard or goatee but I suppose it would not be bad for a plain clothed detective to have NEATLY trimmed facial hair.

[Valor55]

Uh, yeah, I know. That's why I brought it up in my post..... And I wasn't arguing that it interfers with gas masks, of course it does.

I knew what you meant, I was just reaffirming what you said.

I was referring to the fact our officers aren't issued them as standard equipment, or at least weren't. You could be right since 9-11, but officers I've stayed in contact with have made no mention of it so I sort of doubt it. I can't speak for any other dept, but the cost of issuing personal gas masks to each of our officers would be prohibitive at this point. Perhaps yours is small enough to afford it, but with 1000 cops and at least 600-700 working uniform, that would be a lot of money to provide adequate masks. And buying something cheap would be worse than not issuing any at all. You sound like both depts you worked for issued some sort of mask, mine never has.

The first agency was Fairfax County which has big $$$ in the tax base. They issued everyone in their civil disturbance unit the good masks and before I left they were getting the rest of the department the masks. That was 1300+ sworn. That would have been a combo of budget and grants I suspect.

My current agency has about 250 sworn and they are waaay too cheap to issue good equipment. That's all grant money here. :D

I won't argue post 9-11, but you were talking about facing crowds and clearing buildings, not terrorist attacks. Our people still don't use gas for either of those. We haven't used any form of gas bombs in 30 years, the collateral problems outweigh their usefulness. Our specialized teams use it for buildings only on high risk entries or barracaded felons. Obviously, your dept has different policies, that has nothing to do with me being a "dinosaur".

The dinosaur crack was a joke. Lighten up old man. :p

They prepare for the worst with terrorist attacks. We are all geared up for everything except radiological which I suspect is just too expensive. Then since everyone has this nice equipment the supervisors are like, "Well since everyone has gas masks now I can use this can of Clear Out (CS/OC combo) on this drunk and disorderly crowd." So now all of a sudden we've discovered this new capability we used to rely on special units for. I'm aware of a handfull of chemical munitions uses recently on the street here. Our supervisors are equipped with all kinds of fun toys and they aren't shy to use them. If you don't have your mask with you that's your problem and not theirs and you're going to have to find a way to cope. Needless to say, everyone tends to be pretty good about having them along in the car.

But again, I agree, if the people on your dept carry masks and they might be using them, they should prohibit beards. But IMO, that's the only real reason to. Otherwise, it has nothing to do with sharp appearance or effectiveness.

We have a legitimate practical reason for banning beards now that probably didn't exist in the past. Like a lot of others though I don't like the look of beards in uniform. But that is a matter of opinion when the gas masks aren't a factor.

[retdetsgt]

Like a lot of others though I don't like the look of beards in uniform. But that is a matter of opinion when the gas masks aren't a factor.

Heh, I suspect that was the bottom line all along.;)

[Valor55]

Heh, I suspect that was the bottom line all along.;)

At least we have and use gas masks so it'll never be an issue here. :p

[retdetsgt]

At least we have and use gas masks so it'll never be an issue here. :p

It's never really been an issue here. Some chiefs have allowed them and some haven't. Guys grow them and then they shave them off when they're told to. Guys that didn't like them just didn't grow one. Beards are the least of our worries. There was never any hubbub when they were allowed nor when they were taken away. The media always tried to make a bigger deal of it than any cop did.

Not that many guys kept them, it was sorta like when we got "shall issue" CCW permits. Lotsa people got them and then found that carrying a gun wasn't all that convenient. Same with beards, a number of guys grew them and then shaved them off once the novelty wore off. It never really mattered that much anyway. As I said before, there was no change in the way the public perceived us, most don't look past the uniform anyway. And as I said earlier, there is hardly any uniformity anymore with all the diversity we have on depts now. There's less visible difference in two guys, one with and one without a beard than there is with a 6'4" male and a 5'2" female officer.

It would be nice if our guys were issued gas masks, but it ain't gonna happen.