Suspended, Sent To Sensitivity Training - Be Careful What You Say!

[Nole795]

Imagine two male co-workers standing around the water cooler talking about their sexual exploits in vivid detail and how big the chests of various women in the workplace are - with other co-workers walking past and hearing every word.

So they have no right to be offended because they are not even part of the conversation?

Then maybe that person should approach them to tell them to cut it off, instead of reporting it to an outside agency to leave a permanent mark on someone's work history. Maybe it is me, but I don't mess with other people's livelihood unless there is something criminal, or so atrocious that has not been rectified by management.

What I have seen is an officer being complained on because he had a photo of his wife in Costa Rica in a bathing suit on his desk, and someone filed a complaint. The worst is the person who complained doesnt even work out of that area; he/she was visiting said site.

I just learned that we can no longer say "flip chart," because it is offensive to Phillipines. Dont ask me how the title of a board with paper lying on a stand is somehow equated with the Phillipino culture, but I guess someone thought it wasn't politically correct.

[Nole795]

When I was working a task force with the FBI, there were several agencies involved, including a Hispanic guy from INS. We were sitting around the office one night and were trying to decide where to go eat. One young FBI agent, fairly fresh out of college remarked, "I don't care where we go, but I just don't want anymore beaner food." The INS guy, who was kind of a ******* IMO anyway, threw a complaint and the young SA got sent back to DC for some sort of *** chewing and orientation. He came back pretty humble. Maybe it was a dumb thing to say, I wouldn't have in front of the INS guy, but it hardly seemed worth what they did to him.

RDS, I may have to save this post, sounds like you feel sorry for an FBI agent. :eek:

[chewy]

Then maybe that person should approach them to tell them to cut it off, instead of reporting it to an outside agency to leave a permanent mark on someone's work history. Maybe it is me, but I don't mess with other people's livelihood unless there is something criminal, or so atrocious that has not been rectified by management.

What I have seen is an officer being complained on because he had a photo of his wife in Costa Rica in a bathing suit on his desk, and someone filed a complaint. The worst is the person who complained doesnt even work out of that area; he/she was visiting said site.

I just learned that we can no longer say "flip chart," because it is offensive to Phillipines. Dont ask me how the title of a board with paper lying on a stand is somehow equated with the Phillipino culture, but I guess someone thought it wasn't politically correct.

I have to totally agree with you there. I've seen more than one person get in serious trouble because some idiot went right to management with a formal complaint, frequently over stupid crap. I can't stand when you're in a job like ours, either LE, Fire, EMS or Military where you deal with all types of people, often in their worst life situations and then you don't have the guts to just stand up to a co-worker and say "hey, why don't you knock it off" or "hey, if all you have to say is ******** then keep it to your self." or simply "I'm not comfortable with this conversation, please change the subject"! I think by now we should be out of that high school attitude of being embarrassed to speak up. If it offends you then SPEAK UP. THEN, if it doesn't stop maybe go to management. In my opinion the only thing that should really get to formal complaint is stuff like harassment/fondling etc. This world would be much better off if people would grow up and stop crying about everything.... life’s harsh, either get thicker skin or move along to the afterlife and free up some valuable O2 for the rest of us!!!

[retdetsgt]

RDS, I may have to save this post, sounds like you feel sorry for an FBI agent. :eek:

He was so new that he hadn't even called his first press conference yet!:D

[Ironhead]

I have worked for State, Local, and Federal agencies. In all the training I hav ever gotten, they all defined sexual harassmant as "unwanted attention of a a sexual nature" The key here is the word "unwanted"

If a woman and a man in the workplace want to send dirty emails to each other, it may well violate their rules regarding electronic media, it may well violate rules regarding appropriate use of agency time, but if they are both happy with the exchange, it cannot be sexual harassment. Now - if she sits on his lap and whispers sweet nothings into his ear, others could be offended by it and it could be a sexual harassment issue.

The other thing I have always been taught, is that for cases where the behavior is generally accepted in public social settings (like a man holding a door open for a woman or saying someone looks good) the person who is 'offended' needs to do something to indicate that they consider the behavior to be unwanted or unacceptable.
In other words an action or behavior that is commonly done, or considered benign, can be construed as sexual harassment, but the person being offended cannot let it drag on and on and on and then finally make a complaint.

Bottom line is that different behaviors are interpreted differently. I would not be offended if a woman reached out and adjusted my tie (if it were askew) other men might be. If a male said to a female co-owrker that the blouse she had on was attractive, that is probably not out of bounds ..... if he goes on to say that the reason he likes it is that it makes her chest look bigger, then I would say she will be offended (but even then - not every woman would) It might be that she noticed the same thing and that is what she likes about the blouse too.

I hear what the trainers and teachers tell us - and I a doubtful that their very own office is as free from sexual innuendo, jokes, and comments as they tell us that ours should be.

[retdetsgt]

If a woman and a man in the workplace want to send dirty emails to each other, it may well violate their rules regarding electronic media, it may well violate rules regarding appropriate use of agency time, but if they are both happy with the exchange, it cannot be sexual harassment.

Until she decides he's not cute anymore. Our chief just got demoted over an incident 5-6 years ago. He commanded a pct and started playing slap and tickle with a clerical person. The exchanged hot emails, but she saved all of his and when the time was right, she gave them to her lawyer to sue for sexual harassment. He's back to being a precinct commander again.

[Ironhead]

Until she decides he's not cute anymore. Our chief just got demoted over an incident 5-6 years ago. He commanded a pct and started playing slap and tickle with a clerical person. The exchanged hot emails, but she saved all of his and when the time was right, she gave them to her lawyer to sue for sexual harassment. He's back to being a precinct commander again.

I'm not sure if it's a Federal thing or not, but the last class I attended a couple years ago stated that there was a 'window' of 45 days the victim has to report the behavior. I guess they figure that if they wait more than 45 days, it couldn't have been that important to them.

[NightVampire]

Then maybe that person should approach them to tell them to cut it off, instead of reporting it to an outside agency to leave a permanent mark on someone's work history. Maybe it is me, but I don't mess with other people's livelihood unless there is something criminal, or so atrocious that has not been rectified by management.

What I have seen is an officer being complained on because he had a photo of his wife in Costa Rica in a bathing suit on his desk, and someone filed a complaint. The worst is the person who complained doesnt even work out of that area; he/she was visiting said site.

I just learned that we can no longer say "flip chart," because it is offensive to Phillipines. Dont ask me how the title of a board with paper lying on a stand is somehow equated with the Phillipino culture, but I guess someone thought it wasn't politically correct.

It's kind of like the rape or domestic violence victims that you probably learned about in the academy. Will many rape victims punch and slap their attacker? Yes. Do all? No. Do we hold that against them? No.

Not everyone is able to stand up and be confrontational.

The point that anyone working in this line of work should be able to is well taken - but you can't have seperate "law enforcement workplace" standards.

[shorty26]

The point that anyone working in this line of work should be able to is well taken - but you can't have seperate "law enforcement workplace" standards.

Who said anything about seperate LE standards?

Reread the posts. You will find out that the people against this could care less whether you are an accountant or a LEO. Sexual Harassment guidelines and policies have gotten seriously out of hand EVERYWHERE.

15 years ago sexual harassment was defined as unwanted sexual advances and required sexual favors to get ahead- if you want the promotion give it up- type of things. Now it is "they smiled at me, now I am uncomfortable" and "I know they weren't talking to me, or about me, and I don't know them, but one of them said "bra" and now I am uncomfortable." Pure nonsense.

In most places this stuff is no longer investigated. The Department of Agriculture certainly doesn't. The accuser has no burden of proof put on them. They think that by doing that more people will come forward about their experiences, when in reality it is punishing innocent people who have no way to defend themselves against it.

My gosh, this country needs to get some common sense back.

[Nole795]

It's kind of like the rape or domestic violence victims that you probably learned about in the academy. Will many rape victims punch and slap their attacker? Yes. Do all? No. Do we hold that against them? No.

Not everyone is able to stand up and be confrontational.

The point that anyone working in this line of work should be able to is well taken - but you can't have seperate "law enforcement workplace" standards.

Shorty26 already stated what I would have posted. As for the rape example you put up, that is apples and oranges to the extreme.

[retdetsgt]

I'm not sure if it's a Federal thing or not, but the last class I attended a couple years ago stated that there was a 'window' of 45 days the victim has to report the behavior. I guess they figure that if they wait more than 45 days, it couldn't have been that important to them.

Doesn't matter what the government thinks about the time frame, the window for filing a civil suit is a lot more than that. The agency and the person can be sued, that's what's happening here.