PepperBall Gun

[Switchback]

I am a certified instructor for the pepperball. I love the thing! It, like all the other less-lethal weapons with which I am familiar, is just another tool for the toolbox.

I'd have no concerns regarding the pepperball because you train with multiple rounds with each deployment. Heck, I do the same thing with my firearm. Nearly all of our handgun training is in 3 shot groups! Does that make my handgun less effective? Hardly. As anyone who has been hit with a pepperball will tell you (which I have), you start feeling the pain at about the time the 3-4 round is hitting you. It's very intense and very effective!

No, there is no garuntee that it will stop a determined subject or one that is high on drugs. The same can be said for handguns.

Yes, the rounds can (do) cause some serious welts and may break the skin. Yes, you can lose an eye. They should not, however, be lethal. There are do***ented incidents of deployments on a subjects head (temple area). The subject was knocked unconscious, with no permanent injuries. It was a lethal force situation and the officer made due. The guns are marketed by the company as NON-LETHAL. I do not like that term and tend to stick with the term "less-lethal" as with our batons, pepper, tasers, etc. Why tempt fate!

BTW, this is not just a paintball gun on steroids! The accuracy was phenomenal. We were hitting soda cans at 30 feet with no problem. The pepper was surprisingly potent, even outside.

There are liquid rounds for pain compliance, pepper rounds that add pepper to the mix, dye rounds to mark individuals, as well as solid, nylon rounds to break glass!

It's another great tool for the toolbox!

[Charlie]

I could not find a link but this was in the DALLAS MORNING NEWS - Wednesday, June 11, 2003 on page 2B of the "Metropolitan" section of the paper under the NEWS BRIEFS (Photo of cops and "nut job" included!)

"Police arrest a homeless man near Lubben Plaza in downtown Dallas. The man, who wasn't identified, reportedly brandished a knife at officers Tuesday then slashed his own arms. Police responded about 12:30 p.m. to reports of a man trying to break into vehicles in a lot near the 700 blockof Young Street. The man was subdued by a device that shoots pepper balls and was taken to have his cuts treated. He was charged with aggravated assault of a public servant."

--
Charlie

[Badmana]

As an avid paintballer I can see this kind of device would be very effective. How many rounds does the "hopper" (if it has a hopper) have?

If it's anything as fast as my Tippmann pro/carbine 5 shots would take 1 second or less to fire.

And the range of paintguns in general is pretty good. Crowd dispersal would probably be very effective.

[DepDog]

Our's does have a hopper and holds about 200!!!

[Badmana]

(rubs hands in evil manner) so umm...where can I get these pepperballs? :D


What kind of liability issues would police forces have if you hit someone in the face? I've shot paint into the 320-340 fps range (during target shooting) and I can tell you that, at that speed, the paint is pretty powerful. I'd hate to get caught in the throat!

Are the guns (or markers) capped at very low fps? What kind of air system are you using? I could imagine desposible co2 would be easiest to handle (my hand-gun / marker using 12 oz co2 is enough for 21 - or so shots).

[DepDog]

The pepperball gun is a modified paintball gun, so the fps are the same about 320-360, yes they do sting. The company will stand behind their product, but only if you do not use the pepperball gun for shooting paintballs and do not make any modifications to it, they have an armorer school just for the pepperball gun.

There is always a risk of liability in everything we do, people are always looking for ways to get into our pocketbooks, or departments. As long as you can justify you were aiming for center mass, and they happen to duck and get dotted between the eyes, oh well. We use a 3000psi air tank and fill it with a regular scuba tank with an adapter you get from company.

[Charlie]

DepDog--

What you've posted is generally the same set up we have. We too utilize the scuba tank and generally do the same thing. I am also in agreement with your overall comments as well.

--
Charlie

[u538]

So how many department use less than leathal devices? and what kind? I was at the DPS last week and one trooper had a M-SERIES Tazer on his belt behind his pistol but no OC/CS.

[Switchback]

We, like numerous agencies, use 12 gauge Super Sock rounds in some shotguns.

We also have an abundance of stuff for 37mm launchers. We have rifled and smooth-bore launchers. We a variety of impact and gas munitions in the 37s, to include K01s, K03s, wood batons, barricade rounds, etc. We have a ton of ammo for the 37s!

We also have the M26 Air Taser.

Then there is the OC and expandable batons, too.

I think that covers it.

[gdowkpc]

There is no problem using a less-lethal device in a lethal situation as long as it is safe to do so. Safety can be achieved by having lethal cover standing right next to you.

Portland uses the sage gun, bean bag gun, and taser. All require less lethal cover to be present during deployment.

We had a case where a crazed mental patient fought with police. They tried hands on, then pepper spray, then asp batons. Those all failed, so they went up to the bean bag gun and struck the man several times.

He finally grabbed a metal bar off of a door and charged the officers. The ban bag officer was just beginning to transition to handgun, and was concerned he wasn't going to have enough time to make the transition and fire before he was to be struck by the bar. Lethal cover was able to take the shots and nuetralize the threat.