Weapons

[scan]

-Dirk
-Metallic Knuckles
-Slungshot
-Billie

What kind of weapons are these? How is it used? What does it look like?

[Scruit]

- A slingshot is an ancient weapon that consists of a long thin strap of leather with a pouch at the halfway point. A stone is placed in the pouch and the two lends of the strap are held. The stone is swung at high speed and one end of the strap is released, releasing the stone at high speed. This is the weapn that David used to slay Goliath. http://www.olohe.com/weapons/maa.html

Slingshot is also the American term for a "catapult", which in this context refers to the old children's weapon of y-shaped frame with pouch connected to it via rubber or elastic. http://www.kiddstoys.co.uk/milbro.htm

I'm guessing "slungshot" is a typo - either yours or in the Floria state code.


- A billie club... I believe that is a very short wooden club that is easy to conceal? Like about 1' long? Similar weapons would be the old British Police Truncheon or the Irish "Shelaley" (sheh-lay-lee) The British police dropped the truncheon for a choice of the US style side-handle baton, or telescopic metal baton.


- a Dirk is a short sword about 20" long. See http://www.medieval-weaponry.com/en-us/dept_716.html

- Metallic Knuckles. See the "Brass paperweight" second item from the bottom on this page... http://www.wvguns.com/products_knives.htm

[gdowkpc]

There actually is such a thing as a 'SLUNGSHOT' and it is listed as a weapon in Oregon law that a felon cannot be in possesion of.

The slungshot I saw was about 18" long and metal. It had a straight handle, like as asp baton. But the neck of it had a spring running up about 10 inches.

Somehow, when you real back, then come formward to hit some with it, the spring causes the rod to bend and then it comes whipping forward with increased motion.

Imagine an asp baton that could bend. When you whipped that thing around...it could really get going.

-JUST A NOTE ABOUT THESE- In the 1700's, the slunshot would be described as a bag of shot tied inside of a bag. The bag is then attached with a short rope to a stick and flung. The stick provides the leverage to get the bag of shot moving at high speed. The slungshot I described above works on similar principle, but is modern, one piece, and metallic.


The DIRK does not have to be 20" long. It is just another name for a dagger. It just originated in Scotland where the dagger originated from Italy.

The reason these are outlawed/restricted is because they are designed specifically for killing people. They have a blade on both side that is equidistant from the center line. They also have a blood channel down the center.


The BILLIE thing I don't know anything about -- if it is different than a billie club. It is not listed in Oregon law.

The post above had great pictures of the metal knuckles and the dirk, though. Thanks for all that research!!!

[Zantar]

I have another question about weapons that applies specifically to Oregon. I have heard in more than one place that Oregon is one of the only, if not THE only state that does not outlaw possession of automatic knives (switchblades). Supposedly they are legal to carry in a belt sheath unconcealed like any other knife.

The guy who taught the class for my CHL went off on an aside at one point about other weapons and said that even though it is legal to carry a switchblade in the above described manner that if a cop discovered you had one he would probably give you a hard time about it.

I'm interested in hearing from Oregon LEOs about this subject. I'll also throw our a more general question. Since there are so many folding knives out there that can be opened very quickly and easily with a thumb hole or stud now, what's the big deal about switchblades? Is the difference in opening speed enough to really make the switchblade more "dangerous"?

[EricTheBald]

You want to know something weird about weapons?

In New York State, unless something has changed since 1999 when I last went through the books, carrying an old fashioned muzzle-loading, single shot pistol is pretty much the legal equivilant of carrying a civillian version UZI, but carrying a sword (other than a cane sword) is NOT against the law.

And to make it weirder, that pistol example I gave you has a twist. You can have a full load of powder, with a patch & ball already rammed home, and as long as there isn't a percussion cap on the nipple, it isn't considered loaded AND it's considered an antique firearm at that point and becomes legal to carry again.

[gdowkpc]

Originally posted by Zantar
I have another question about weapons that applies specifically to Oregon. I have heard in more than one place that Oregon is one of the only, if not THE only state that does not outlaw possession of automatic knives (switchblades). Supposedly they are legal to carry in a belt sheath unconcealed like any other knife.

Your source is right and wrong. Oregon Revised Statutue 166.240 entiled 'Carrying Concealed Weapon' states in subsection 2: COLOR=orangered]"any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or centrifugal force.....commits a class B misdemeanor.[/COLOR]

The law does not say you cannot carry one....it is illegal to carry one concealed.

This also applies to a pocket knife that has such a loose hinge that it can be flipped open with the flip of a wrist or something like a butterfly knife.

Portland city code may be more strict and I will have to look.

[Scubapro]

So, tell me when you will see a switchblade NOT concealed?

[gdowkpc]

Exactly

[Zantar]

Originally posted by Scubapro
So, tell me when you will see a switchblade NOT concealed?

How about if it is carried in an unconcealed belt sheath? It would then be legal to carry, right? I was curious how officers think they would react to someone who was carrying an automatic knife in that manner. I have heard that some react in a none too happy way even when it's within the law.

It's kind of ironic that I can get a license to carry a loaded handgun concealed on my person, but if I were to conceal a switchblade ( or any other knife with an over 4" blade) I would be breaking the law.

[Scruit]

That's like Ohio's concealed gun law. I't being challenged in the Ohio Supreme Court right now based on constitutional grounds. The ohio Constitution, article 1 satates that "The people have a right to bear arms in their defense and security". The Ohio Revised Code states that if you are caught with a concealed weapon then you must answer to a judge - ie you WILL be arrested.

Opponents fo the lawsuit state that you may carry a heandgun on an exposed holster if you wish. That is not illegal. Therefore a ban on 'concealed' carry is not a violation of the constitution.

Proponents of the lawsuit state that although legal, carrying a gun cowboy-style down main street will get the attention of the police and scare oters around you. Therefore we need to be able to carry concealed so as not to cause a breach of the peace.

LEOs - If you saw guy walking down the street with a sidearm holstered on a belt like your own duty weapon - how would you react to this. What if someone came up to you and said; 'There's this guy carrying a gun in an exposed holster and he's freaking me out by doing so!"


Although I support the legal opinion of the plaintiffs that the law is in violation of the constitution - I would prefer this lawsuit fail. This would give Ohio a vermont-style concealed carry with no training etc. The Ohio legislature is rushing to pass House Bill 12, a reform of concealled carry that would make Ohio a shall-issue state based upon training and background check.

[gdowkpc]

Knives are very lethal and are scary to police offiers. Body armor provides no protection. Atleast a non automatic knofe requires more effort to open than an auto knife and can buy a little time if needed.

You need to remember, even though you may be a good person, the police have no idea who you are. Everybody has to been seen as a potential threat. It sounds a little paranoid, but this is how you servive.

As far as unconcealed guns in Oregon, it is legal, however, Oregon law allow for cities to prohibit the prectice. Portland has chosen to prohibit loaded unconcealed weapons in public. Unloaded unconcealed weapons are fine (but how can you tell the difference? You will be taken down at gunpoint if you try it in Portland.).

[Zantar]

I was thinking about carrying an automatic knife on my duty belt. I work for an armored car company and most of us carry knives on our belts because we use them for cutting straps and such. Speed is very important in the job, so I thought it might be cool to have a fast opening knife. I don't really NEED a switchblade, but I figured that if it's legal why not? Did you ever find out whether Portland bans the carrying of auto knives gdowkpc? My route takes me up there every day.

[gdowkpc]

There is no city code in Portland pertaining to the concealing of knives. The state law is the only guide.

For more information on Portland City codes, go to:

http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/codes/portland/

[Zantar]

I found something interesting. On a page about Oregon law review citiations http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/annos/166ano.html there was this:

Because switchblade is type of pocketknife and it is not illegal under this section to carry concealed pocketknife, it cannot be illegal to carry concealed switchblade. State v. Ramer, 65 Or App 480, 671 P2d 723 (1983)

Yet the law is still as was posted earlier. Does the above decision have the force of law? If I'm reading it right, it seems to say that carrying a switchblade concealed is OK.

[gdowkpc]

I read the years of those decisions and they were made prior to my law training. In my lkaw training, they were still saying you could arrest for it, and I know officers are charging for it.

I have not yet come across someone who needed to be charged for carrying one. However, our D.A.'s are very good about sending out legal update bulletins if something changes, so I am confident that nothing has changed since they told us we could arrest for it and now.

Also, when reading the actual law, it states that no one can carry any knife (pocketknife terminology is not used), that swings into force....

The legistlature here moves very fast to correct laws that are struck down by the courts. We are seeing that now with the state of the trespassing laws here. I susoect that the law has been updated since the decision was made. My law book is at work, so I don't immediatle have access to the revision date.

Also, in my pocket cheat book, the put in footnotes of case law that affects that law. The only footnote on the law refer to what the definition of a 'similar item' is in case law.