Child Porn

[jonesg11]

Ok, some people wanted another good thread to debate, so we'll see how this one goes.

The other day on the radio some guy called in while the topic was about child porn on the internet. He said that the police have child porn websites so that they can catch pedophiles.

Now I find that quite hard to believe, but do you think that would be an appropriate thing to do? Someone likened it to undercover cops posing as hookers to catch johns.

I know what I think about the idea, but would like to hear what you think.

[zander_zye]

Yes - there are child porn sites run by the police (although I don't think any would readily admit it).

Is this legal? Yes. (with some caviats) Is this ethical? (I will leave out moral because morality and ethics are two completely different things).

From a strict Constitutional stand point, I would say no. It is not ethical for police to be running child porn sites, or arrange any scenerio that can be construed as entrapment.

On the other hand, I have to agree with Finnish law that basically puts the welfare of the child above everything else. Personally, as a parent, I want to see everything done to idenfity, and stop pedophiles before some child has to be victim. As a country (and as a country we are still very conversative compared to nearly every other western society) we have to be mindful of the laws and customs of other countries. In most European countries, the age of consent is 14. In the US (CA for example) - although child pornography laws apply to children under the age of 18, special consideration (as in tougher laws) are given to children under the age of 14.


What are your thoughts Jones? Do you beleive that regarless of the constitution we should put the welfare of our children first?

[Darin]

Well it may not be constitutional technically but I say put the welfare of children first. I was kinda shocked to hear that cops have child porn sights to catch pedophiles but I think it's a good way of getting those low lifes. There is nothing that turns my stomache more than child porn and people that prey on children.

[jonesg11]

Well my thoughts are that I have no problem using these methods to catch the pirces of s*** that do this type of stuff. The one problem I see is that when there is an undercover officer "working" the streets no one gets hurt or harmed (unless something goes wrong).

However with child porn, where do you get the pictures from? Certainly if I had children and they were kidnapped or somehow were used in this disgusting way I would not want those same pictures used again by the police to catch some guy.

I suppose there are ways to get the s*** to believe there are those types of materials on the site, but don't most "pay-sites" of any kind usually have a preview? Thats my problem with it all is that the pictures would still be used.

So does the benefit outweigh the negatives? I'm not sure, there are probably other ways in which to accomplish the job although it may take more time and effort.

[zander_zye]

I am not sure where the get the source material. I would surmise that they have someone over the age of 18 that looks much younger. Otherwise, wouldn't you be pi**ed if they used a picture of your child on a LE snare? I would -

A lot of pedophiles are caught by a LE officer posing as a child in a chatroom. A silicon valley exec was caught in sting using just that tactic. Again, perhaps a bit unethical, but I believe a child's welfare is of paramount importance.

[Jynkxxie]

I wasn't going to reply to this because what I have to contribute I think it is off the subject a little, but I have a sort of reality check that I can add to this post.

Some of my friends, started this thing that they do at work. Granted my friends are getting close to thirty, and really should have better things to do, but I gotta love them.

What they (the guys) do, is they find men on the internet, (using a messanger, or chat board) that like young girls. Then they pretend to be a young girl, and they spend some time getting to know the person. They make sure not to incinuate anything. They let this sick human being that preys on young girls, confront them. Again they make it very clear that they are 13-15, and they are very good at potraying them selves as preteen girls.

Anyway once they establish a relationship with the man, if not asked first, they usually ask the gentleman to meet them somewhere.
Some of these men actually do! And sometimes they tell the men, after they initate sexual content on the messanger, that they are really talking to a 30 year old man.

Some of the guys get really defensive, and others just shrug it off like it is no big deal, like they are not even miffed by it.

Anything I have just said does not portray actions or opinions that I view or practice, Just something I know that some people do.

Anyway, what is interesting is that a couple of months ago, a local radio station in my area did the same thing. They too, established relationships with men on the internet, while potraying to be a young female, then after they were given the numbers of some of the men, they called them.

The person who did this was a man. He did a very good job protraying a young girl. And they aired the telephone conversation on my way to work. Jist of the story, the man finally asked the yound girl (dj) if she would like a visit from him. And when she said yes, he actually started to make the plans, as he lived in another state. Then they dropped the bomb on him, they told him that he was not talking to whoever but to a dj, and that he was live on the air. He acted like it didn't even affect him and he kept going on and on about how he had done nothing wrong. Yeah, like learing young girls to tell you where they live so that you may have a mature relationship with them is not wrong.

The worst part is that this guy was a registered sex offender and lived in the same city that I work. Yuck.

Thanks to RealPolice, I found out that their are 34 living in my 2 square mile city alone.

Good News though, one of the guys that works with my B/F here in the city caught one of these guys last night. Nice Job Guys!

[Lfpdlieu302]

i can actually say that i'm kinda ify on this one. on one hand they need to be caught, on the other, if the officer looks at the material or sets it up he's kinda looking too, just because he doesent like it doesnt make it better. i guess kinda like smoking weed with the baddies to earn their trust, how can you bust them if you did it. whew, this one i actually may have to sit and think about some more though. talia, question for ya.....why do your friends do this? i mean, do they contact local pd's with the info, or is it just a joke to them? i dont mean this in a sarcastic way, its just an interesting prank i guess.

[Jynkxxie]

I have asked them the same thing...

What can I say they are all great guys, and I don't think they do it just for the kick of it, but on the other hand I can't tell you that they have contacted the police....What would be their proof?

I think they just do it because they are curious and they think that it is just discusting and they like to tell these men that they are sick. Not that it would help them or their problem, but maybe it makes them feel better. I never really got a clear cut answer. So sorry I can't answer that for you. I have surmissed that it is just curiousity.

I don't even think that the DJ from the radio show contacted the police. I honestly don't know what their proof would be. IP Address? Saved Message? I am unsure, and maybe you or someone else can correct me, but could the recorded phone call be used as evidence to convict someone or at least arrest someone for this type of crime?

I really don't know. I just thought that what the DJ did took some balls. And I thought that I would offer that idea, I like it as opposed to people using photo's or young girls or boys. That way it is only the police involved. Hope that answered you question.

[Lfpdlieu302]

yup answered it just fine, thanks.

[zander_zye]

Forget about the IP - that can be masked and scrambled with several software packages. Besides, most Internet Providers use Dynamic and not static IP addresses.

Most of the time the message is saved. Unless the criminal is smart and has erasing software, (the type the imbeds zeros on all blank spots on the HDD), then the cops can retrace their HDD to get evidence...

[Norm357]

As a father I would be the first to say string child molesters up by their scrotum, but can you enforce the law by breaking it? Just my opinion.
Norm

[zander_zye]

Does anyone actually know where LE gets it source material for its child porn website stings?

[Norm357]

also i think threads like this are a great idea

[Darin]

Originally posted by zander_zye
Does anyone actually know where LE gets it source material for its child porn website stings?

I don't know but it would make sense to me that when they confiscate computers from prophiles and check the HD that there would be some material that could be used. I wouldn't think that the police would actually use young looking actors or whatever. I'm sure they could find plenty of material on the sickos computers. Just my thoughts...

Darin

[zander_zye]

That scares me Darin - the use of picture of children in LE string websites. What if it were your child? I would hope that they would either destroy or classify the information found on children.

Reminds me of an incident when I was on training patrol. My TO and I had a call where this 17 year old had gotten his GF drunk and had taken naked picture of her. He started to sell them to other friends (this is before the commerical Internet, circa 1985). Of course this constitued distributation of child pornography. The bad part is that the TO thought it was funny to show other officers the pictures as one big joke. I called him on this and he was quite embarassed. (if I followed the book to the letter, he would have had at least 30 days on the beach). The point is, when dealing with sensitive crimes such as rape and child porn, descresion and professionalism if of utmost importance.