Should we become like Germany (traffic-wise)?

[Question]

In my opinion, I believe that people can be trained to operate cars safely at high speeds. In Germany, people are able to drive as fast as they want on the Autobahn, but this is after they have passed some of the most rigorous driving tests and with the expectation of hefty tickets if they pass on the right, drive drunk etc.

Due to Germany's strict enforcement on laws, drivers can drive much more freely and still have the one of the lowest fatality rates in the world.

This is not to say that speeding in the States right now is right. In fact you should be ticketed and/or arrested if the law calls for it. However, aside from breaking the law, I don't see what's wrong with speeding if you're a safe alert driver.

Anywho, this is my opinion. What are your views on our traffic/driving laws?

[TPDHellhound]

Agreed!

[ngcsubutterbar]

there 'are' speed limits on the Autobahn.


Tell you what though the first few times on it seeing Ausfahrt every few miles I thought we were driving in circles because I didn't know the language at the time. We're used to have 'what the exit is', not just 'exit here' signs :D


and yes, I'd hate to have to pay the fees and mandatory schooling to get a liscense there.

btw I found a GREAT informational site and it's in ENGLISH! http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/autobahn.htm

[Darin]

I think that there is way too much traffic in the US to implement an "Autobahn" here.

Questions quote:
However, aside from breaking the law, I don't see what's wrong with speeding if you're a safe alert driver.


The problem is that OTHER people are on the road with you. You don't own the road and you should be more considerate of the other drivers. Other drivers shouldnt be subject to the dangers of a speeder just because they are "trained" to drive at high speeds.

Just my $.02

[BlakeStone]

In my opinion, the problem also involves lifestyle. North Americans are renowned for being "fast", having to do things quickly and efficiently, taking small breaks, eating whatever can be made in the least amount of time, and ALWAYS looking for the BBD (Bigger Better Deal). Quite a few European countries have schools that start later in the day, lunch breaks that last 1 hour (with stores that close up for 2 just for this), and in general a more laidback lifestyle. One of the big contributing factors may be that there are less "tired-and-wired on coffee because I have to pick up my daughter at ballet, fix dinner, and be back at work in 25 minutes" in Germany which would mean more well-rested, clear-headed, relaxed drivers.

[retdetsgt]

I don't think our roads and traffic conditions could handle it. Lowering the speed limit to 55 on freeways was a pain in the butt, but it did cause the number of wrecks to go down. Of course, a 55 mph means people only drive 70!

[not5150]

I've always been an advocate of different classes of Drivers Licenses. If you pass more stringent tests and get advanced training, you should be able to do more than the average guy.

Also, periodic retesting (like in aviation) should be implemented.

[Darin]

I've always been an advocate of different classes of Drivers Licenses. If you pass more stringent tests and get advanced training, you should be able to do more than the average guy.

In what ways should they be able to do more than the average guy?

[Nole795]

I don't know if there is any truth to this but while I was in Germany I was told by a citizen that if you choose to speed on the left (fast lane) of the Autobahn, then you would not be covered by insurance if you wrecked. That alone would make me question the whole "speed as you please" concept.

[TheQuietCorner]

In what ways should they be able to do more than the average guy?

Speeding, speeding. Yeah! And pushing slow people out of the way. Yeah! And using lights and sirens. Yeah! And maybe free use of the roads without concerns for proper traffic lanes! Yeah... oh but only if you flick off the other drivers as you pass them. Oh, and stopping and parking wherever you please.

Sorry. If this was stupid, (which it was) please don't murder me. Maybe just a light assault with a stick. :D

[Valor55]

Probably the number one problem on large highways here is not speed but lane discipline. If people stayed out of the left lanes except when passing and checked behind them before moving over we'd probably have fewer accidents. Going 80 isn't a big deal until some knucklehead drifts over in front of you because they are on a cell phone and didn't check.

The reason I think autobahn style driving couldn't happen here is because the roads aren't engineered for it. The grades and corners can't handle the high speeds.

When I worked up north I ran code more than a few times on a very new highway that had 4 lanes in each direction. These were calls to get to another cop on mids when there was little or no traffic out. In order to get through some of the curves at 130 MPH I had to apex using the shoulders plus all four lanes. My understanding of autobahn driving is that in exotic cars people smoke that speed. Even on a relatively brand new highway the curves were too tight for high speed driving. They were too tight even at 90 to not apex using at least two lanes of traffic. If you could hold your car in the left lane at 130 MPH you are either on rails or the road was built for it and the engineers anticpated those speeds. There isn't a public highway in this country that was designed for that kind of driving (you can pull it off in the desert but the road wasn't meant for it.)

So due to engineering issues I really don't think it is feasible.

The idea of different driver privileges based on training is intriguing. The only problem I have with that though is some kid who still picks his nose will get a rice burner with an 18 foot wing on the trunk and neon lights underneath is going to get one and drive like "The Fast and The Furious."

[Mike Romeo]

After spending 4 years in Germany and driving on the AUTOBAHN extensively, I'd have to say NO to unrestricted speeds here. The American adrenaline junkies would kill thousands of responsible people behind the wheel.

It costs your average German teenager over $2,000 dollars (rough conversion) to receive a federally mandated driver education that takes about 8 months to complete. They basically teach them to race with an extreme amount of courtesy, the likes of which took me a long time to get use to. That's because I had never been on the road amongst drivers that were as courteous and safe. It was truely unbelievable how courteous Germans are, even at 230 KPH. That was my fuel shut off at redline on my 320 BMW (230 x .6 = 138 MPH) and it would do 135 + all day. It was a very efficient car.

Germany is already 40 + years ahead of us in unrestricted speed limits and intense driver education. And the unrestricted areas are not infinite. They have restricted areas all over the place where you can get clocked by a camera and receive a ticket in the mail. The fines are heavy....trust me. It's a different mentality there, too. Most of the German's don't speed because of the rush, they speed because they have an efficient system in which to do so.

We're just not ready for that type of driving discipline.

[mcsap]

The problem , every Tom , **** and Harry ( Jane too) thinks they are a safe, alert driver. I am in favor of the raised speed limits on limited access highways and the 75 limits out west but we just have TOO MUCH traffic.

What happens when someone goes out into the hammer lane at 90 and someone else is coming along at 140 mph ??

[Valor55]

What happens when someone goes out into the hammer lane at 90 and someone else is coming along at 140 mph ??

Lane discipline! :D

I liked Mike's observations of German driving instruction. We let people who don't speak english use an interpreter to give them the answers to the written test. I can't imagine we could ever ramp up to German level driver's ed.

[Bearcat06]

After spending 4 years in Germany and driving on the AUTOBAHN extensively, I'd have to say NO to unrestricted speeds here. The American adrenaline junkies would kill thousands of responsible people behind the wheel.

It costs your average German teenager over $2,000 dollars (rough conversion) to receive a federally mandated driver education that takes about 8 months to complete. They basically teach them to race with an extreme amount of courtesy, the likes of which took me a long time to get use to. That's because I had never been on the road amongst drivers that were as courteous and safe. It was truely unbelievable how courteous Germans are, even at 230 KPH. That was my fuel shut off at redline on my 320 BMW (230 x .6 = 138 MPH) and it would do 135 + all day. It was a very efficient car.

Germany is already 40 + years ahead of us in unrestricted speed limits and intense driver education. And the unrestricted areas are not infinite. They have restricted areas all over the place where you can get clocked by a camera and receive a ticket in the mail. The fines are heavy....trust me. It's a different mentality there, too. Most of the German's don't speed because of the rush, they speed because they have an efficient system in which to do so.

We're just not ready for that type of driving discipline.

Having worked in Germany for 3 years as a Miltiary LEO, I would have to totally agree with what Mike said. I have worked more than enough fatality wrecks on the Autobahn to know a couple of things.
1) US Interstates are in such piss-poor shape, that you could never drive safely on them at high speeds.
2) US Drivers as a whole do not have the needed skills to drive safely on them at higher speeds.
3) To make a more Autobahn like system here, it would costs hundreds of millions of dollars to do and that will never happen either.