When cops mess up.

[Deputy757]

Two things if I may:
Two different DAs from two different jurisdictions refused to bring charges against this lady. The Clayton County DA is a friend of mine, a damn good guy, and he said he wouldnt touch this case with a ten foot pole. That should tell you something. If you have any specific questions about this case, and why he wont touch it, I would be glad to ask him.

It doesn't tell me anything. DA's/County Attorney's/prosecutors...whatever you want to call them...have never made a lot of points with me when it comes to doing something that is beneficial to law enforcement. If they are basing their decision on something that has not been made public at this point, then perhaps they are acting wisely. I can't comment on something I don't know about. But if they are making that decision because of the use of force issue, then they are hanging an officer out to dry in the interest of public perception. This is something attorneys are VERY good at!

Second, I happen to know a lot about police procedure, when I made that comment, I was being a smartass. Excuse me for not throwing in the rolling eyes smiley. :rolleyes:
If you were being sarcastic, then that's fine. However, based on your previous comments, I have a hard time believing you didn't mean exactly what you said. No offense meant...just a point of view.

Blindly supporting someone based simply on their profession is foolish.
I agree. However I don't think anyone is blindly doing anything. We've all seen the video footage and have made comments and offered opinions based on what we've seen. If there is more to the story...fine. But until I'm privy to something that definitively puts the officer in the wrong, I'll watch his back.

[Norm357]

However, based on your previous comments, I have a hard time believing you didn't mean exactly what you said. No offense meant...just a point of view.

Yeah, I cant stand cops. I often go out of my way to try and make them look bad. :rolleyes:

[Lawson]

Okay step 1, admitting your problems... completed.. good work, now we can go onto step 2. :D lol Sorry.

[Wifeofadeputy]

Yeah, I cant stand cops. I often go out of my way to try and make them look bad. :rolleyes:

Yeah! And what do you know anyway? =P :rolleyes:

[Norm357]

It doesn't tell me anything. DA's/County Attorney's/prosecutors...whatever you want to call them...have never made a lot of points with me when it comes to doing something that is beneficial to law enforcement. If they are basing their decision on something that has not been made public at this point, then perhaps they are acting wisely. I can't comment on something I don't know about. But if they are making that decision because of the use of force issue, then they are hanging an officer out to dry in the interest of public perception. This is something attorneys are VERY good at!

Our DAs do not hang cops out to dry. The very notion is very offensive. The notion that you think you know something the man that would be prosecuting the case dosnt is offensive also.

[oscarmitre]

dep Norm isn't coming down on cops. I haven't seen the video (okay sometimes I'm technically challenged) but we do screw up don't we? I agree that we shouldn't condemn anyone out of hand but we're not a grand jury, it's a discussion forum, points of view can be expressed without jeopardising the interests of the officers in the video. Anyway there's no such thing as an open and shut case so it will be with this situation I suspect.

Anyway if you really want to tick Norm off call members of the public "civilians" and see what happens :D


sorry Norm, couldn't resist :eek:

[Norm357]

Anyway if you really want to tick Norm off call members of the public "civilians"

I love you man but sometimes your an asshat. :D

[oscarmitre]

Looks like I'll have to wear it Norm :D

[Deputy757]

Our DAs do not hang cops out to dry. The very notion is very offensive. The notion that you think you know something the man that would be prosecuting the case dosnt is offensive also.

I can't comment on what your DA's do or do not do...and I haven't.
I said if they are making that decision....then they are hanging an officer out to dry... I also never said I knew something that the DA didn't. In fact, I said that, If they are basing their decision on something that has not been made public at this point, then perhaps they are acting wisely. I can't comment on something I don't know about.
Your responses make it sound like you haven't even read what I posted, that you are only angry that I won't condemn this officer out of hand based only on what was on the video.
You posted earlier..Tony, I go out of my way to not condem a cop, but this one is bad news. I saw the whole security vid and this guy was wrong.
It seems that you have already made up your mind about this incident. So when you post something like Cause that big old man was having problems with that little bitty woman, I can only surmise that you were being contemptuous. As oscar pointed out, your point of view is just as valid as mine. I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in believing that the officer acted improperly, just that rushing to judgement often does more harm than good...especially for officers accused of excessive force.
An officer in Louisville, KY shot and killed a man not long ago while the man was running away from him. The man had just seconds before attempted to disarm the officer and the officer believed that the man was armed with a firearm (which turned out to be true). The commonwealth attorney in Jefferson county publicly denounced the officer and not long afterwards the chief of police fired him. The officer was indicted and then found not guilty at trial. Several use of force experts supported his decision to use deadly force in that situation.
My point is that even DA's can be wrong and knee jerk reactions to an officers possible use of excessive force only makes an already stressful situation worse.
On a side note, where are all the public figures that typically go on the warpath against LE when the participants racial roles are reversed? Isn't a possible excessive force issue noteworthy even if the person arrested isn't a person of color?

[Group9]

I have only one experience with the Fulton County District Attorney's office and it was back in 1986 and they messed up a murder case I was working on so bad that anything I heard about them would not surprise me. I realize that was a long time ago, but that is the only experience I have ever had with a Georgia state prosecutor.

I also worked in a DA's office for three years. Anyone who doesn't think that a lot of descisions on whether to prosecute or not are made for reasons other than the merits of the case just hasn't been around long enough.

We just had a case in my office where one our agents shot someone who pulled a gun on an arrest team. The AUSA didn't indict for assault on a LEO because he told me he figured between the federal drug charges the guy had pending, and the three .45's in him, he had been punished enough. Prosecutors sometimes live in a different world from LEO's.

[vbgecko]

Yeah, I cant stand cops. I often go out of my way to try and make them look bad. :rolleyes:

Yeah Norm, how is your wife ... ;)

[acreature]

Can't gauge the whole incident from the vid.

For arguments sake, I can't tell either way if the mirror hit the Officer, I can't tell why it took so long for her to be removed from the vehicle - was she resisting in the car?
The time lapse film does not afford all of the video, so it's hard to tell whether her being "placed" onto the concrete was appropriate.

Yes, women are, IMO, the hardest to control. Using ones ASP or PR24 is proper for placing arms behind the back of a resisting arrestee.

And any news source is notorious for only showing the bad parts of any PD or Officer b/c the good stuff doesn't sell. I refuse to believe the news, having been misquoted and shown in a bad light a few times myself. I wasn't there as well as any of you all.

Past excessive force complaints play a part in any officer's credibility, but you must compare. It's easy to have a BS complaint, but if all or most allege the same type bad behavior, w/ similar circumstance and the complainers have no connection to each other, then there may be merit. But again, we know nothing of this Officer except what was stated in the news. :rolleyes:

Norm doesn't blast or downplay LE, he is a staunch supporter stating his opinion on what he knows.

I can't judge the Officer, but can see how easy it is based on what the media is giving. Not the whole story.

[Norm357]

acreature, I can answer some of those questions.

For arguments sake, I can't tell either way if the mirror hit the Officer.

It has been determined by the APD............No, he was not struck.

I can't tell why it took so long for her to be removed from the vehicle.

She was seatbelted in. The officer ended up pulling her up and over (through?) her seatbelt.

Yes, women are, IMO, the hardest to control. Using ones ASP or PR24 is proper for placing arms behind the back of a resisting arrestee.

I agree, I never said otherwise. I admit to being a smartass and not using the rolling eyes smiley.

And any news source is notorious for only showing the bad parts of any PD or Officer b/c the good stuff doesn't sell. I refuse to believe the news, having been misquoted and shown in a bad light a few times myself.

I agree, I hate the media with a passion.

Past excessive force complaints play a part in any officer's credibility, but you must compare. It's easy to have a BS complaint, but if all or most allege the same type bad behavior, w/ similar circumstance and the complainers have no connection to each other, then there may be merit.

IMmostHO 24 excessive force complaints in 12 months indicates a serious problem.

Norm doesn't blast or downplay LE, he is a staunch supporter stating his opinion on what he knows.

Thanks for that acreature, its a shame that you had to say it. I realize that some members here discount what I say because I dont have the most holy of holies verified tag, but its there loss.

[ngcsubutterbar]

Each incident needs to be judged alone on the circumstances. If there are a lot of sustained complaints of excessive force I think serious discipline and retraining and possibly termination are appropriate. Especially in light of this current incident appearing to be unprovoked rage. Having a cop just snap and beat someone is baaaaad.

you must give your admin hell if they use early warning software lol.

[Deputy757]

Thanks for that acreature, its a shame that you had to say it. I realize that some members here discount what I say because I dont have the most holy of holies verified tag, but its there loss.

If that's meant for me, and I'll be the first to notice an overdeveloped sense of paranoia :D , I don't think that I ever discounted what you had to say. I don't hold that that only people with something valid to say are those with a verified tag. I simply commented on something that you said that you have admitted did not come across the way you intended.