Probable Cause & Reasonable Suspicion

[acreature]

Link Probable Cause (4th paragraph)



I know its a little thing, but it annoys the hell out of me. Especially when used at inapropriate times, it tends to add to the "street lawyers" ignorance.

You do not need Probable Cause to stop a car or a person. You only need Reasonable Suspicion. That means there is a suspicion that a crime may occur, or may have occurred (of course it must be an articulable suspicon; matching description, time of day/night, area, person, clothing, sweating, running etc, etc..). You need Probable Cause for arrests and searches. You only need Reasonable Suspicion for Pat Downs, or Frisks of persons.... and autos too for that matter (for weapons only I emphasize).

I have just heard it too much, on this board as well as other places, "I had PC to stop.....there's your PC to stop.....etc, etc"

IMO, with this info being constantly thrown about, the public and even some LEO's will assume you need proof w/o a reasonable doubt that you can do any aspect of the job. Kinda like the morons walking about saying, "Read me my rights" all of the damn time.

But thats another discussion ;)

Okay, I feel better now. [/soapbox]

[txinvestigator1]

Whats your probable cause to believe that people think that way? sorry, could not resist.

[acreature]

I deserved it.

[Jynkxxie]

Thank you for posting this....

Some here have confused me on this as well when I know the answer.

[MOCOP]

But how many times have you had an attorney( especailly a public defender) ask you what your PC was only to turn around with the reasonable suspicion.
I used to have to deal with one and that was her favorite ploy. She got me the first time. :D But not after that. :p

[acreature]

reply is, "I had none"

And let 'em go fishin'

[Joxer]

reply is, "I had none"

And let 'em go fishin'

I actually saw that happen once. Officer said "I didn't have PC"...then the defense attorney got up, all flourished waving his hands around and asked the judge for immediate dismissal. The judge smirked a bit (because he knew the old cop and the law), and asked if the prosecution had any questions of the witness before he made his ruling on the motion to dismiss. The prosecution took the cue and asked, "officer if you didn't have pc for the stop, what did you have?"

He replied

"I had reasonable suspicion"

The defense attorney got a bit pale, sat down, and realized his error. The smile on that officer's face I'll never forget..because the guff old cop didn't smile all that often

[121Traffic]

Thank you! I got tired of telling people that.