1911 in police use?

[Cat_Doc]

Our agency was on that list, but only the prior 1911 guys got grandfathered in when the policy changed under a new administration. I got "grandfathered" in to continue carrying my Glock 21SF, as did some who carry the XD .45. All the new hires since are being issued the Glock 22 without any other options available.

The primary reason is as was mentioned by Switch. It makes sense to have uniform weapons and ammo from an administrative and fiscally responsible point of view.

[basher52]

Ask and you shall receive.....

362 Departments who permit/authorize the 1911 Platform for on/off duty use. Some mandate specific models, Like Tacoma PD, who issue Kimber's to patrol and the shorter barrel model to detectives.

Anchorage Police Department AK
Fort Yukon Police Department AK
Palmer Police Department AK
Seward Police Department AK
Florence TAC TEAMPolice Department AL
Homewood Police Department AL
Hoover Police Department AL
Irondale Police Department AL
Jefferson County Sheriff Department AL
Mountain Brook Police Department AL
Vestavia Hills Police Department AL
Arkadelphia Police Department AR
Lonoke Police Department AR
Arizona Ranger State Police AZ
Chandler Police Department AZ
Cochise County Sheriff Department AZ
Coconino County Sheriff Department AZ
Douglas Police Department AZ
Gila County Sheriff Department AZ
Maricopa County Sheriff Department AZ
Payson Police Department AZ
Pima County Sheriff Department AZ
Pinal County Sheriff Department AZ
Yavapai County Sheriff Department AZ
Yuma County Sheriff Department AZ
Anaheim Police Department CA
Antioch Police Department CA
Arcadia Police Department CA
Beverly Hills SWAT Police Department CA
Chula Vista Police Department CA
Colton Police Department CA
Culver City Police Department CA
Del Rey Oaks Police Department CA
Downey Police Department CA
Dwight Police Department CA
Garden Grove Police Department CA
Hermosa Beach Police Department CA
Huron Police Department CA
Lake County Sheriff Department CA
LAPD Swat Police Department CA
Long Beach Police Department CA
Los Angeles County Sheriff Department CA
Los Angeles School PD Police Department CA
Maywood Police Department CA
Mill Valley Police Department CA
Mountain View Police Department CA
Napa County Sheriff Department CA
Palo Alto Police Department CA
Paso Robles Police Department CA
Pomona Police Department CA
Port of San Diego Harbor Police Police Department CA
Richmond Police Department CA
Ripon Police Department CA
Sacramento County Sheriff Department CA
Salinas Police Department CA
San Diego Police Department CA
San Jose Police Department CA
San Rafael Police Department CA
Santa Cruz Police Department CA
Simi Valley Police Department CA
Solano County SWAT Sheriff Department CA
Sonoma County Sheriff Department CA
Sunnyvalle Police Department CA
Tulare County Sheriff Department CA
Aurora Police Department CO
Brewster County Sheriff Department CO
Bristow Police Department CO
Castle Rock Police Department CO
Cherry Hill Police Department CO
Dacono Police Department CO
Denver Police Department CO
Douglas County Sheriff Department CO
Douglass County Sheriff Department CO
Durango Police Department CO
Englewood Police Department CO
Firestone Police Department CO
Fort Collins Police Department CO
Fort Lupton Police Department CO
Frederick Police Department CO
Ft. Collins Police Department CO
Grand Junction Police Department CO
Greenwood Village Police Department CO
La Plata County Sheriff Department CO
Lakewood Police Department CO
Larimar County Sheriff Department CO
Larimer County Sheriff Department CO
Lasalle Police Department CO
Littleton Police Department CO
Longmont Police Department CO
Loveland Police Department CO
Northglenn Police Department CO
Pueblo Police Department CO
Thornton Police Department CO
Trinidad Police Department CO
Weld County Sheriff Department CO
Westminster Police Department CO
Wheatridge Police Department CO
Connecticut SP ESU State Police CT
Hartford ERT Police Department CT
Willimantic Police Department CT
Belleview Police Department FL
Florida State Fire Marshal Statewide FL
Indian River County Sheriff Department FL
Lakeland Police Department FL
Leon County Sheriff Department FL
Marion County Sheriff Department FL
Ocee Police Department FL
Tallahassee Police Department FL
Woodridge Police Department FL
Centerville Police Department GA
Norcross Police Department GA
Oconee County Sheriff Department GA
Whitfield County Sheriff Department GA
Des Moines SWAT & Instructors Police Department IA
Aberdeen Police Department ID
Rigby Police Department ID
Argenta Police Department IL
Bourbonnais Police Department IL
Carrolton Police Department IL
Champaign Police Department IL
Champaign County Sheriff Department IL
Chester Police Department IL
ClarkCounty Sheriff Department IL
Coles County Sheriff Department IL
Des Plaines Police Department IL
Douglas County Sheriff Department IL
East Peoria Police Department IL
Flora Police Department IL
Kakakee County Sheriff Department IL
Kane County Sheriff Department IL
Kildeer Police Department IL
Lake Villa Police Department IL
Lemont Police Department IL
Marshall Police Department IL
McClean County Sheriff Department IL
Monee Police Department IL
Peoria Police Department IL
Romeoville Police Department IL
Salem Police Department IL
Sauk Village Police Department IL
Southern Illinois University University PD IL
St. Charles Police Department IL
St. Francis County Sheriff Department IL
Sugar Grove Police Department IL
Urbana Police Department IL
Walnut Police Department IL
Warrensburg Police Department IL
White Hall Police Department IL
Zurich Police Department IL
Boone County Sheriff Department IN
Boone County Sheriff Department IN
Dyer Police Department IN
Indiana SP Detective State Police IN
Jamestown Police Department IN
Whitestown Police Department IN
Whitley County Sheriff Department IN
Burden Police Department KS
Coffeyville Police Department KS
Council Grove Police Department KS
Elk County Sheriff Department KS
Franklin County Sheriff Department KS
Howard Police Department KS
Lenexa Police Department KS
Christian County Police Department KY
Cynthiana Police Department KY
Rapides Parish Sheriff Department LA
Rapides Parish SWAT Sheriff Department LA
Boston Special Operations Police Department MA
North Attleboro Police Department MA
Saint Mary's County Sheriff Department MD
Bangor Police Department ME
Wells Police Department ME
Dearborn Heights Police Department MI
Dallas County Sheriff Department MO
Phelps County Sheriff Department MO
St. Francois County Sheriff Department MO
Carbon County Sheriff Department MT
Cascade County Sheriff Department MT
Missoula County Sheriff Department MT
Stll Water County Sheriff Department MT
Sweet Grass County Sheriff Department MT
Valley County Police Department MT
Alcohol Law Enforcement Division Statewide NC
Avery County SWAT Sheriff Department NC
Buncombe County Sheriff Department NC
Florence County SWAT Sheriff Department NC
Forsyth County SWAT Sheriff Department NC
Cooke County Sheriff Department NE
Imperial Police Department NE
Colebrook Police Department NH
Dover Police Department NH
Hillsboro Police Department NH
Albuquerque Police Department NM
Curry County Sheriff Department NM
Debaca County Sheriff Department NM
Dona Ana County Sheriff Department NM
Grant County Sheriff Department NM
Las Cruces Police Department NM
Luna County Sheriff Department NM
Portales Police Department NM
Raton Police Department NM
Rio Rancho Police Department NM
Roswell Police Department NM
Tucumcari Police Department NM
City of Henderson Police Department NV
Douglas County Sheriff Department NV
Las Vegas Metro Police Department NV
Cleveland Police Department OH
Gahanna Police Department OH
Mentor Police Department OH
Pepper Pike Police Department OH
South Russell Police Department OH
Broken Arrow Police Department OK
Cleveland Police Department OK
Enid Police Department OK
Jennings Police Department OK
Midwest City Police Department OK
Pawnee Police Department OK
Clakamas County Sheriff Department OR
Goldendale Police Department OR
Grant County Sheriff Department OR
Jackson County Sheriff Department OR
Klickitat County Sheriff Department OR
Lincoln City Police Department OR
Marion County Sheriff Department OR
Molalla Police Department OR
Nyssa Police Department OR
Sandy Police Department OR
Skamina County Sheriff Department OR
Umatilla County Sheriff Department OR
West Linn Police Department OR
Bellevue Boro Police Department PA
Bethlehem Police Department PA
Pine Grove Police Department PA
Plymouth Township Police Department PA
Whitehall Police Department PA
Solicitors Office 2nd Circuit Solicitor's Office SC
Bolder Police Department SD
Franklin Police Department TN
McNairy County Sheriff Department TN

[basher52]

I am a HUGE fan of the 1911 platform, having started carrying it in 1975. I say there are only 2 guns that changed the face of the firearms community. The first being the 1911, which started service to our country on March 29, 1911. This coming March 29, 2011 the 1911 platform complete 100 years of service and is still going strong. John Moses Browning would be very proud. The other gun, as we all know is the Glock. I believe it will have its day...sometime in the next century.

Oh, and Happy birthday John Moses Browning, on January 21, 1855/2011.

[k9870]

If you run out of ammo, odds are your partners out 2 and not decked out with spare mags to take, and if a gunfight is long enough for pistols to run dry, you should not be using a psitol, theres a reason long guns are in patrol cars. I say officers should carry what there confortable with, I cant shoot a DAO to save my life, even the DAK or LEM. Odds are when i join a department ill use one of these, in the uscg we have to shoot DAK and i hate the thing.

[Switchback]

You see, a real shooter knows doing the job has a lot less to do with the tool than the craftsman. If the gun is reliable and relatively accurate, chances are I can shoot very well with it. Of course over the years, i have developed preferences. However, I can shoot 290+/300 with a POS S&W sigma .380 as well as a Glock 22 or my old Springfield Operator.

[MikeG]

You see, a real shooter knows doing the job has a lot less to do with the tool than the craftsman. If the gun is reliable and relatively accurate, chances are I can shoot very well with it. Of course over the years, i have developed preferences. However, I can shoot 290+/300 with a POS S&W sigma .380 as well as a Glock 22 or my old Springfield Operator.

Oh come on. Anybody can do that. 290+ is a pretty fat, big target. I could shoot 290. Trying shooting somebody who is 110 soaking wet. Those skinny guys are hard to hit.

[Switchback]

I try not to go to far south for just that reason... too many tweakers down there!

[basher52]

You see, a real shooter knows doing the job has a lot less to do with the tool than the craftsman. If the gun is reliable and relatively accurate, chances are I can shoot very well with it. Of course over the years, i have developed preferences. However, I can shoot 290+/300 with a POS S&W sigma .380 as well as a Glock 22 or my old Springfield Operator.

+1 Any gun from a major Mfgr ... is only as good as the guy or gal behind it thats pulling the trigger. Practice makes perfect, what some people need more of than others.

[mobrien316]

As a firearms instructor, it always cracks me up when a shooter will scatter 40 hits (out of 60 rounds) all across two targets, and then claim that they don't like the department gun (Sig P226R in .40). Then they claim if they only had their Glock they'd be putting all their rounds through a dime.

As Switchback mentioned, the pistol is a tool. If you can drive a nail with hammer, you should be able to do it regardless of what brand of hammer you are using.
If you understand sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control you should be reasonably accurate with any pistol you use. Certain pistols, because of various physical characteristics, are going to be more comfortable to shoot or easier to operate, but all of them will hit the point at which you are aiming if you properly align the sights, get a good sight picture, and squeeze the trigger properly.

The main reason we all use one pistol at my department is commonality of training. I have to write all the lesson plans and courses of fire myself. Instead of having shooters with 12 rounds magazines, 15 rounds magazines, 7 round magazines, and six-round revolvers, it is much easier to train everyone when they are all carrying Sig P226R's, all with 12 round magazines.

[MikeG]

As a firearms instructor, it always cracks me up when a shooter will scatter 40 hits (out of 60 rounds) all across two targets, and then claim that they don't like the department gun (Sig P226R in .40). Then they claim if they only had their Glock they'd be putting all their rounds through a dime.

As Switchback mentioned, the pistol is a tool. If you can drive a nail with hammer, you should be able to do it regardless of what brand of hammer you are using.
If you understand sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control you should be reasonably accurate with any pistol you use. Certain pistols, because of various physical characteristics, are going to be more comfortable to shoot or easier to operate, but all of them will hit the point at which you are aiming if you properly align the sights, get a good sight picture, and squeeze the trigger properly.

I've seen people at the range trade off on different pistols and complain about one or another. One thing was pointed out to me was a wrist rotation/break that can happen depending on grip size/fitment/pistol weight/trigger setting/fatigue/etc. It's very slight just after take-up and it's just part of the act of squeezing. All shots to the left for me (at short distances its not even an issue, just very slgihtly worse). I suspect this would be one of differences between model/brand/caliber. Technically with proper sight picture, trigger control and grip, a shooter would pick this up and correct it. Practically, it seems that's not the case very often when someone changes pistols. I'm sure there's a million other things that can wrong that also related to fitment, but that's my one.

Another experiment I would like to try but on someone elses pistol (maybe someone who's budget includes 300 degree electronic scenario/shoothouse with negative feedback): take a glock 22 slide and a glock 27 slide side-by-side. Mark the location of where the 27 front sight is on the 22 and drill a hole and move the 22 front sight back to that location. Basically it reduces the sight radius and makes "sight picture" problems more severe. The nice part is that this "training slide" could be used on a duty pistol and it wouldn't change the draw, grip, or recoil. I don't know how effective it would be but I figure if you can shoot that reduced radius sight picture and then move back to regular slide, you would be better. Just a thought.

[k9870]

not all guns are the same, fit in hand is very important, like i shoot low with a glock due to grip angle. XD i do fine. DAO might be okay in slow fire, in rapid fire i shoot high right. In real life your not doing a 3 second trigger pull in a SD situation.

[Switchback]

Mike, at pistol ranges, that sight radius difference is a very minor issue. In fact, I would venture to say that most shooters are not accurate to have the difference in sight radius between a G22 & G27 to come into play. I am not saying that it is not an issue at all, just inconsequential.

FWIW, I have yet to shoot a perfect 300 with my baby Glock, usually shooting 295-296. I have shot several 300s with the G22. The thing is, as many quals as I have shot over the years, I would bet that that is hardly a quantitative difference... most times I shoot 297-298 with the G22.

In other words, I would not bother drilling in new sights on a G22. Just change your training. Aim smaller, miss smaller... introduce speed (time requirements from the holster), introduce stress (fatigue from sprints and calisthenics, competing with others), etc.

[mobrien316]

Generally, if someone is drilling holes with a Glock (for example), as in covering sixty rounds a single hand, they will pick up a Sig P226R and come pretty darn close to drilling holes, but will often be a little bit low of where they intend to aim. This is because of the physical differences between the grips on the pistols, and this is normal. Once the shooter gets a bit more familiar with the Sig they will go back to drilling holes through the center of the target.

The whining I referred to earlier is clearly ridiculous when a shooter picks up a Sig and scatters their shots all over hell and creation, and then says if they just had their Glock they would be hitting the center each time. There simply isn't THAT much difference between pistols. It's not like the Glock has normal sights and the Sig has a front sight on a spring, bouncing back and forth like a metronome between shots...

[Switchback]

Look at you! You got to use the word "metronome". I mean, I have not used that in normal conversation in ages! I am impressed.