Federal agency POW policies?

[tanksoldier]

It seems that, in general, the farther UP the chain you go with regard to jurisdiction the more restrictive POW policies are.

Here in CO it seems that local agencies (small town cops, etc) are pretty liberal: service caliber, major manufacturer, qualify with it and you can carry it.

At the state level (DPS, etc) they seem much more restrictive. State troopers carry the issue weapon on duty and have short list of authorized off-duty.

Most federal agencies SEEM even more restrictive. I've been told that CBPOs and BPAs pretty much have to carry the issue weapon both on and off duty. Of course, my perception may not be reality.

That said, an acquaintance in local LE told me that he worked with an NCIS agent who was carrying a 1911 of some kind and we thought NCIS was limited to P228/P229s.

So, anybody care to share their agency's POW policies? I'm just curious.

[ChesCopPodz]

I wish my agency would allow me to choose what I want to carry. Unfortunately, the larger the agency the more costly it becomes to buy ammo of various calibers. It becomes simple budget numbers. Cheaper to buy one caliber in bulk.

[Switchback]

For a long time, we could carry nearly anything we wanted. It had to be between 9mm and .44 in caliber, have a fireing pin safety block, double action/safe action on teh first trigger pull and have a capacity of at least 6 rounds.

Several years ago, we went to a Glock 22 or 23 as teh issued weapon. The back-up policy has not changed, however. It's similar to our old primary duty weapon policy, but allows for weapons with 5 shot capacity and .380/.38 being the minimum sized caliber.

With that said, our Special Operations Group has been carrying Springfield Operators (1911s) for several years. I think I was isssued mine back in 2005. They started phasing them in back in '04, I think. Before that, the SOG issued weapon was a Sig P229 in .40. For the handgun, SOG is exempt from the duty weapon restrictions both while on SOG missions and while back in district.

[tanksoldier]

Cheaper to buy one caliber in bulk.

I've heard that before, but I've never understood it. They could STILL say "it has to be .40 S&W" or whatever and let you choose Glock, Sig, S&W...

[MikeG]

I've heard that before, but I've never understood it. They could STILL say "it has to be .40 S&W" or whatever and let you choose Glock, Sig, S&W...

It's a maintenance and training issue as well. With large departments, they emply an armorer that will have to be certified to maintain the armory. In even larger departments, they have armorers that are trained to train other armorers. Each manufacturer has their own classes and courses. It's cheaper to have everyone trained on the same system.

For example, the Glock basic armorer course is 8 hours. It covers all models. Couple that with the desire for either compatible ammo or bulk ammo purchase or ammo qualification and you end up with a calibre. Whence restrictive policies like only Glock 22/23 for Duty carry and Glock 23/27 for off duty and backup.

What sucks is that all of that ignores the most fundamental concepts of having a personal firearm and that his how quickly and accurately can the officer put lead downrange. If the officer cannot put a second round from his Glock 22 on target because of the recoil but he can accurately put 6 rounds from his 1911 (or Glock 21), which makes the better weapon? Which is the safer officer?

Seriously, I wish larger PD's would send their risk management people to the range and watch someone scatter but qualify (on the second or third time) with their .40 cal, and then watch them score perfectly with a 9mm or .45. Tell them anything outside the center ring is a lawsuit and ask them whether they want to mandate calibre and manufacturer or whether they want proficient shooters.

[Sierra]

I may not understand the question correctly.

ICE issued a Sig 229 as my primary duty weapon. There are cetain other weapons, that I can buy at my own expense, that I am authorized to use as a back up weapon on duty.

When I am off-duty, I carry my personally owned weapon, which is a Glock 19. ICE does not mandate I carry off duty, nor does it say what weapon I have to use off duty.

[tanksoldier]

I may not understand the question correctly.

I've been told, tho it may be bad info, that many federal agencies are very restrictive with the weapons they will allow an employee to carry on and off duty.

For example, my understanding is that BPAs and CBPOs are ONLY allowed their issue weapon on AND off duty by their agency. Also, BPAs are apparently not allowed a backup weapon at all.

It wouldn't be a decising factor for which agency I would work for, but I was just curious about the various policies out there.

[clark7]

Army CID Here... (Not that anyone really considers us Feds, but I digress)

We are issued the M11 (Military badged SIG P228), which is the only weapon we are authorized. No backups, no personally owned weapons.

The only time we are allowed a different weapon is if you work a Drug Team, and can justify a need to carry a non-standard weapon. (Never happens)

Policy says we can't put personally purchased ammo through the weapon either, and the only time we get issued ammo is @ the qualification range. How smart is that?

[Kimble]

That said, an acquaintance in local LE told me that he worked with an NCIS agent who was carrying a 1911 of some kind and we thought NCIS was limited to P228/P229s.

NCIS does issue a Sig P229 .40 cal DAK (formerly issued a 9mm P228), but they also have a fairly extensive list for POW carry. If the agent wants to go out and purchase a POW, and they qual on it, they can carry that weapon instead of the issued weapon, or as a backup weapon in addition to their issued weapon (assuming they've qual'ed on both).

Not sure off the top of my head if the 1911's are on the approved BOW list, but the list is farily extensive, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[Cat_Doc]

(Not that anyone really considers us Feds, but I digress)

I wouldn't get hung up on that. I've worked with OSI, CID and NCIS. They have always been considered "federal special agents" in good standing. DOD still is federal, right? As a matter of fact, I have a good friend (ex Tucson P.D.), who is a Special Agent with the DOD assigned to a counter-terrorism unit and is one of the best cops I’ve ever had to the pleasure to know.

I've had more issues with "suits" from the FBI who didn't seem to know what "time it was" on the streets. I've seen hard core scumbags see right through the suits, razor cuts and manicures and demand to talk with a "real cop" before. (I better throw in here that I have also known some damn good FBI field agents, specifically working the reservations, who were every bit the savvy and street smart cop.)

But, this perspective is from a street cop...and the FBI probably thinks we don't know what we are doing.