ATFE Barrel Length Question

[Taxx]

I was about to purchase a AR15 with a 14 inch barrel. I was told I could do it with a letter from my chief. However, my USM friends say that only Federal LE can have weapons with that short of a barrel. I went to the ATFE website and went blind looking for the answer....so I came here.

[Creeker]

...so I came here.

...and so you did... :p

Sorry couldn't resist... :D

[Joeyd6]

For personal use or for official use?

[Joeyd6]

Additionally, my agency went through this issue when we just bought new "entry weapons."

Keep in mind when you decrease barrel length, ballistic effects on a live target can start to get dicey. You have to keep the velocity to at least 2500 fps for the round to perform as it was intended (going frangible inside the target). The lower the velocity gets, the more chance that the bullet will not break up/come apart inside the target, and rather that creating the wounding effect the .223 is capable of. Below 2500 fps, the round has a tendency to stay intact and just zoom through the target without creating much of a permanent wound channel.

[Johninaustin]

Personally, I don't see the point. All that paperwork and hassle for inferior performance?

It's only 2" of barrel. Is it really necessary to go thru all that? :confused:

[kels]

If you are talking about the standard M4 set up,
the flash hider makes it legal for normal purchase.

If you are talking something like the Colt Commando,
it will either be a Short Barrelled Rifle (sbr) or a
Class 3 machine gun. Depends of if it is full auto or
semi auto.Some states allow ownership
of a SBR with proper paperwork. (like Kansas I think)
but the machinegun version would be a dept purchase
only item.

If you have a question, you would be better off talking
to your local BATFE office. The last time I called them,
they were very helpful.

[txinvestigator1]

I was about to purchase a AR15 with a 14 inch barrel. I was told I could do it with a letter from my chief. However, my USM friends say that only Federal LE can have weapons with that short of a barrel. I went to the ATFE website and went blind looking for the answer....so I came here.

It is not true. Lots of local cops around here have 14 inch ARs. Your Federal Agent friends only wish they were extra special. :p

[TX-LEO]

It is not true. Lots of local cops around here have 14 inch ARs. Your Federal Agent friends only wish they were extra special. :p

This is my patrol rifle with an 11.5" BBL.

It's an NFA device ( as is the gemtech .223 suppressor in the photo )
and requires a $200 tax stamp and BATFE registration, and as was said,
is a big pain in the butt. However I'm working on my 3rd SBR
(short barrelled rifle ) right now, so it's up to the user as to whether
it's worth it or not. I've got some $1800 in tax stamps, so you know
my opinion on NFA worthiness.

If you buy the 14"BBL gun on department letterhead, it will belong to
the department and not you. I think SBR's are legal in your state, but
check to see. If they are, you file the paperwork on your own after
you buy a rifle, or you can use an AR15 you already have. You then buy
the appropriate 14" BBL if that is what you want, AFTER you file the
paperwork and obtain approval. If you go this route and want help, I
can easily walk you through the process via PM, or Phone.

[Joeyd6]

If you are talking about the standard M4 set up,
the flash hider makes it legal for normal purchase.

Not in NY or NJ! No flash suppressors allowed. Either a plain end barrel or a muzzle brake. Additionally the NYSP and NJSP in conjucntion with the respective Attorney Generals issued an official opinion that a 14" barrel with a 2" brake/comp/suppressor is not compliant.

I am so sick of the difference in ATF vs. states rules. How about one nationwide standard?

[mxwelch]

If you are talking about the standard M4 set up,
the flash hider makes it legal for normal purchase.

If you are talking something like the Colt Commando,
it will either be a Short Barrelled Rifle (sbr) or a
Class 3 machine gun. Depends of if it is full auto or
semi auto.Some states allow ownership
of a SBR with proper paperwork. (like Kansas I think)
but the machinegun version would be a dept purchase
only item.

If you have a question, you would be better off talking
to your local BATFE office. The last time I called them,
they were very helpful.

If the barrel is under 16" without the flash hider but over with it then it must be permanently attached.
Also, a machinegun is legal to own by civilians in some states. Like Virginia for instance. Not sure if you were talking strictly for patrol or regular use.

[TX-LEO]

I am so sick of the difference in ATF vs. states rules. How about one nationwide standard?

We do, its called federal law. :D

[puma2]

Personally, I wouldn't buy or use an AR-15 with a barrel length of less than 16" because of both the legal headaches and the reductions in effectiveness. As Joeyd6 said, shorter barrels lead to lower velocity and the 5.56 rounds needs about 2,500 to 2,700 fps to "tumble" and fragment. With shorter barrel lengths, the effective range for the rounds can reduce to about 50 yds. All this is for military FMJ like the M855 ammo. With hollow points, you will not get the tumbling and fragmenting which make the 5.56 more effective than other bullets of similar caliber.

[ChesCopPodz]

Agree. If I were to get a 14 inch AR, it would be in .308/7.62.

[Joeyd6]

We do, its called federal law. :D

Too bad each states adds their own rules......that is where the problme occurs!

[TX-LEO]

Personally, I wouldn't buy or use an AR-15 with a barrel length of less than 16" because of both the legal headaches and the reductions in effectiveness. As Joeyd6 said, shorter barrels lead to lower velocity and the 5.56 rounds needs about 2,500 to 2,700 fps to "tumble" and fragment. With shorter barrel lengths, the effective range for the rounds can reduce to about 50 yds. All this is for military FMJ like the M855 ammo. With hollow points, you will not get the tumbling and fragmenting which make the 5.56 more effective than other bullets of similar caliber.

16" vs 11.5" results in 165FPS Loss. This is not enough to reduce the effectiveness in 99.999999999% of the situations where the patrol Officer will use it. If you use high quality ammo such as federal tactical, the 165FPS will make little or no difference. I've chronographed it. All the nuances you can come up with to say the shorter barrels are no good is just that. I've shot plenty of 'stuff' with my SBR and I know for a fact I'd want to be nowhere near the bullet-receiving end of it out to 100 yards.