Inexpensive ( OK cheap!!) rifle

[mcsap]

I am considering a rifle. Kinda fun rifle, with a minor concern for self defense ( I already have a couple of handguns so no need to go there). I was looking at all of those admittedly cheap Russian, Polish, Czech etc 7.62 and SKS style rifles ( not a semi) , 5.56 etc.

Comments from our panel of gun enthusiats ??

[ngcsubutterbar]

you don't want a semi-auto?

[Norm357]

Everyone should own at least one SKS.

[ngcsubutterbar]

oh ok, he said he wants a bolt in chat no ak-47 types. I've always liked the german bolt action weapons, like the Kar 98. Although I have no idea 'how cheap' they are.

[sgtbear111]

As said before, the SKS is cheap, reliable, ammo cost is cheap, and they are more accurate than most of the AK pattern rifles. Would suggest the AK as well, but you indicated no semi-autos.

Bolt action military surplus rifles are mostly coming from Russia, or former east-bloc countries. A whole bunch were stashed away for the Soviet "liberation" of western Europe that never occurred.

The most available are the Mosin-Nagant in 762x54mm, and the Mauser 98 pattern in 8x57mm Mauser. The Mausers are German design, the best specimens are German, Czechoslovakian by CZ, FN Herstal Belgium, and the Yugoslav M-48 can be found in factory new condition with teakwood stocks.

The Mosin Nagant carbines are well made, short and handy, cheap, and have a harsh recoil. Most are Russian. The Finnish M39 rifles (marked "sky" or "vkt") are probably the best for target accuracy. The Finn rifles and the Polish rifles (marked "11" in a circle) seem to be very well finished.

Surplus British Number 4 Mk1 or Mk2 rifles in .303 British can be found in original condition. There are a few Mk2 that came from storage in Ireland that are new in the arsenal wrapping - but expect to pay over $300 if you can find one. A used No4Mk1 can be found for as little as $100. These are WW-2 & Korea era rifles, exceptional quality with 10 round removable magazines. Enfield No4s were made in the UK, Canada and USA. Some may be marked "FTR" with a date - that is a post-WW2 British arsenal rebuilt rifle restored to new specs for re-issue.

The power range of the 8mm, 762x54, 303 British, are just under the 308 or 30-06. Ammo is relatively cheap, but treat all foreign military ammo as corrosive primed, including all new Wolf ammo.

Look for a shiny bore before you buy, many of the surplus rifle barrels are worn or corroded from poor care. Check if all the numbers match or have the last few digits of the serial number. Arrange to have the headspace checked - if possible before buying. The ammo is cheap - i.e. Turkish WW-2 vintage ammo is as low as 7 cents per round if bought by the case. Again, treat all foreign ammo as corrosive primed.

Corrosive priming has a longer shelf life, some foreign miltary ammo is still made with corrosive priming, and much of the surplus ammo was made before the mid 1950's when non-corrosive priming was available. "Non-corrosive" labels on surplus military ammo mean nothing unless you want to risk it. Use boiling hot water, detergent, and ammonia to clean the priming residue. Submerge the muzzle in a bucket with the hot water with detergent and ammonia, and use a cleaning rod with a tight fitting cloth patch to draw water from the bucket up the bore to the chamber. Pump it full length of the bore several times until the patch is no longer coming up dirty. Rinse the bore same way with boiling water. The residual heat will dry the barrel, wipe the rest of the gun dry. After dry, use a good bore cleaner on the barrel, and oil the metal parts. If you know how to clean a black powder weapon, reason and method are the same. Commercial oil-based bore solvents will not remove the corrosive salt residue that only hot water will quickly dissolve. If not cleaned right after shooting, the salt will start to rust a good barrel in mere hours. I runined a barrel in a Walther P-38 after shooting British surplus "43" date WW-2 9mm ammo and just cleaning with oil based bore cleaner. I ruined a Beretta 92 9mm barrel by using present-day commericial Wolf 9mm ammo and believing the "non-corrosive" label on the box.

If you get a surplus military rifle, do not "sporterize" it. Old rifles in their original configuration are many times more valuable than a "sporter" conversion. Pawnshops and gunshows are full of low value former military cut up "sporter" rifles for under $100 as-is condition, some nicely done, others are butchered by novices.

Hope this helps.

[USNusp9]

If you want an sks or any military surplus rifle for that matter checkout centerfiresystems.com. Ask for Lois, she will hook you up.

[kels]

might be a good gun to look at.

When they get the import problem worked out
there should be hi caps available again.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=idx

Lot of information at this site. More info if you do a search on Yahoo.

[mcsap]

Thanks everyone , especially SgtBear for your helpful replies.

[jfor]

Check out a Mosin-Nagant M44 or M38. They can usually be picked up for around $100 and usually are in great shape. They shoot a 7.62x54 bullet. Are extremely accurate and easy to operate.

[jfor]

Also, you can pick up an arsenal grade Garand for $315. Awesome guns and a great piece of history. Do a Google search for CMP(Civilian Marksmanship Program) Garands.

[TX-LEO]

Theres lots of cheaper C&R Bolt guns out there.

[mcsap]

Theres lots of cheaper C&R Bolt guns out there.

Yes, I was just over at Gunbroker.com and under the C & R area I saw a Polish, Hungarian and some other country 7.62 x 39 military rifle with starting bids of $29 to $39 and buy-it-now- for $59 to $69. The seller uses the name of George Mason and claims they are in VG condition.

[P01IC3M4N]

i have two mosin 91/30 bolt guns. they are super accurate and a blast to shoot. those would rate top on my list. one i have is a 1933 tula hex receiver. the other is a 1942 izhevsk round reciever. there is a noticeable difference in the pre-war and wartime guns. i would suggest looking for a pre-war gun if you can find one.

you can get an M44 (the carbine version) for $50 here... http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.html

aztec has them for $60. http://www.aztecguns.com/Pricing.htm
mgs has the M38 for $80 which might be a little better for the collector. http://www.militarygunsupply.com/sho...temid=CRRU38LA

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/sho...=cursalesprice

[ngcsubutterbar]

hows the ammo availibility and cost for those older rifles?

[P01IC3M4N]

hows the ammo availibility and cost for those older rifles?

you can buy corrosive ammo for about $2.50 per box of 20. i've gone through a ton of surplus czech stuff and it shoots accurately enough. some of the less common rounds are costlier. the schmidt-rubin ammo is a little steep, but most of the 8mm mauser rounds are comparable to anything else.