Enlisted or Officer

[BoxingBoy]

Hey guys, I wanted to know if Federal Agencies like (ATF, DEA, FBI, etc,) care if you were an officer or enlisted in the military, cause after I graduate high school, I plan on enlisting in the Navy and proably staying there for 8 years. After the military I will get my college degree. Does that sound like a half-decent shot at making it to Federal Law Enforcement. One more question, do they care a whole lot what your mos was in the military.

[Joeyd6]

I work for an agency that has a direct relationship with the armed forces as an 1811 and MOS/rank do not matter to them. All they care is to see that honorable discharge.

You are probably going to need mnore than just military as your background to get hired in federal law enforcement. My agency has a VERY STRONG history of hiring people who have local/state/other federal law enforcement experience. They have hired 20 in the past nine months and guess how many were not prior LEO's? None!

[GoDirectly2Jail]

+1. Could care less whether you ended up a Colonel or Private, what is listed as your discharge on that 214 is the key.

[Kimble]

Both have their advantages. As an officer, you will learn to manage people (and if you're a good officer, lead them, which is much more involved and personal than management) and resources. As a federal agent (or any criminal investigator), you have to be organized and able to manage your case, so it's definitely transferable skills.

As an enlisted servicemember, you will be doing more hands-on work, which can also be greatly beneficial. For example, the FBI recently has been hiring agents to eventually place them in their HRT tactical unit, so being an infantry grunt would provide you the tactical skills for that hiring initiative.

Go with what you think is best for you and will make your military service more worthwhile, as getting an honorable discharge will be the biggest piece to helping you land a job in LE, federal or otherwise.

[TSOC357]

I know plenty of folks that have either enlisted or O time on Active Duty and were able to get onto various local/state/federal law enforcement agencies.

The key (from what I have seen) seems that one needs to work on education (if you have the time) while you are in then finishing it once you get out. Having just military time isn't going to usually get you anywhere like it use to.

As others have stated, the big key to things is having a clean 214. If you don't have that, then you won't be getting hired with anyone.

I've had several troops that got out thinking they were going to jump right on with PDs back in the Mainland only to find out it's not that easy and ended up doing other things before they got hired.

[osujl]

I am a former enlisted guy and a former officer so I will give my two cents for what it is worth. I agree with the comments above that both options can provide you with valuable experience for a law enforcement career. As a matter of fact I just received a final offer from the DEA. Despite the fact that I didn't make the military a career I don't regret doing it. The experience was great and I wouldn't be the person I am today if I wouldn't have "joined up."

I agree with Kimble completely about the differences between the officer and the enlisted side of the house. The officer is going to manage millions of dollars of equipement (even as a new butter bar 2LT!) and he or she will plan training and do alot of admin duties. An officer is supposed to have command and control of a unit. Despite what you see in the movies an officers most effective tool is the radio and hopefully he or she knows how to use it. If an individual decides to go the enlisted route it is important that he or she become an NCO. Nothing screams dirtbag like a soldier or marine that is an E-3 after 5 years of service. That basically states you were totally useless to the unit during your service. As an NCO you will have admin. duties (counseling soldiers, etc.) but you can really train hard and get hands on tactical experience. Either way work hard to get schools, diverse assignments, TDY opportunities, and more education. The military is what you make of it. The more responsibility you had as an officer or NCO the more high speed you will look at the panel interview, hiring panel, etc.

The above comments state you need an honorable discharge which is obviously very true. However when you apply you will also be asked if you ever faced UCMJ or any type of judicial charges or punishment. This kills alot of people going for LE. I know other former captains that couldn't get hired because of incidents that happened while they served. This isn't to say you your future LE career is destroyed if you get a written counseling statement for minor issues (dirty barracks room, etc.) but you don't want that dirtbag rep because the background folks will talk with your former supervisors during your application process. Hope that helps!

[retdetsgt]

The above comments state you need an honorable discharge which is obviously very true. However when you apply you will also be asked if you ever faced UCMJ or any type of judicial charges or punishment. This kills alot of people going for LE. I know other former captains that couldn't get hired because of incidents that happened while they served.

That's an interesting statement. I served as enlisted and officer from 1964 to 1970 and knew very few people who faced any sort of Article 15 or judicial punishment. Few enlisted and no officers I can think of. You make it sound like it's rampant in the military now.

[TSOC357]

That's an interesting statement. I served as enlisted and officer from 1964 to 1970 and knew very few people who faced any sort of Article 15 or judicial punishment. Few enlisted and no officers I can think of. You make it sound like it's rampant in the military now.

Depends what type of unit/branch you are in I guess. Only a handful of folks I know that have gotten UCMJ action since I've been in (16 years).

Though, more and more it seems like the younger ones are just asking for it with some of the stupid crap they pull in Garrison.

[retdetsgt]

Depends what type of unit/branch you are in I guess. Only a handful of folks I know that have gotten UCMJ action since I've been in (16 years).

Though, more and more it seems like the younger ones are just asking for it with some of the stupid crap they pull in Garrison.

We had a lot of morons, but they were nearly always dealt with locally and usually informally. A letter was about the worst thing that happened unless they'd committed a crime or something really serious. Hell, I got a letter of reprimand as an enlisted man and one as an officer. Both were for insubordination, a mild form actually. I never disobeyed an order, but a couple of times I made unsolicited, editorial remarks about the wisdom of them. But according to my DD214, I was an angel!

As I said, I never saw an officer facing UCMJ stuff. A few had some career killing fitness reports or letters put in their files, but again they wouldn't show on a DD214.

One guy I knew when I was in my first year or so took a summary court martial in lieu of an Article 15 for not only not doing what he was ordered to do, but even told the Sgt. he wasn't going to before hand. He was busted to E-1 from E-3 and lost some pay. He tracked me down not long ago and I found out he had retired from the Army as an E-8.

[BP348]

Nothing screams dirtbag like a soldier or marine that is an E-3 after 5 years of service. That basically states you were totally useless to the unit during your service.

Can't say I agree with the above but I guess it has a lot to do with which branch you serve with. I've met plenty of guys who are prior Army who made E-5 or even E-6 in 5 or 6 years.

With USAF that's pretty much impossible, or at least it was when I was in. When I was in, E-5 was based on your test score with no panel interview. First time I took the test (4 years TIS) I needed a 103 to be eligible. Yes, 100 is the highest score you can make so there was no way I could make it. The following year I need a 98. While doable I don't think I ever met anyone who scored a 98% on the promotion exam. I can't remember what happened my 6th year but I didn't take the test and I knew I was leaving by the 7th year so I didn't bother.

I left USAF after 7 years and was only a E-4 so I guess I didn't quite like being called a slug.

[retdetsgt]

I left USAF after 7 years and was only a E-4 so I guess I didn't quite like being called a slug.

I think the AF has been that way since it became a separate branch. I was told by a friend of mine who served there that unless you were an air crew member, promotions were terribly slow. He was in computer maintenance way back when and complained that slots were constantly being filled by people who cross trained from other fields. He made E-4 just before he finished his 4 year enlistment. He retired recently as a computer systems manager for a university so he was no slug either.

Making E-5 in four years was no particular feat in the Army, at least when I was in. My ex partner and best friend made E-5 well before his 4 years was up and was promised E-6 if he re-enlisted. He was an infantry grunt though and promotions there came a little faster if you showed leadership skills (and lived).

Another friend of mine was a diesel mechanic in the Navy and he made E-5 within his 4 year hitch too. I've been told by others that this was rare in the AF, but I really don't know.

[TSOC357]

We had a lot of morons, but they were nearly always dealt with locally and usually informally.

Best way in my book. I can find endless things for folks to do to help regain their military discipline, especially out here where out grass/weed growth cycle is year-round. Stuff always need to be cut. Nothing like having someone do 2-3 hours of whacking weeds with a machete to help remind them of things such as when/where they should be during the duty day.

As I said, I never saw an officer facing UCMJ stuff.

Only ones I have seen is over in the ME when people get the case of the dumbasses. Stealing huge sums of money from contracts, stealing then selling military property, or killing folks they shouldn't be killing.

A few had some career killing fitness reports or letters put in their files

I know one LT that had a letter put in his file by a 2 Star Division Commander because he got caught fraternizing with Enlisted Females. He found me in Afghanistan my last time over there. He got out and got into the Reserves and is now a LTC.

he had retired from the Army as an E-8.

I know one that got busted for falsifying military records and reduced to E-4 (from E-6), was forced to reclass MOS's from MP to Infantry, and just made the E-9 list. I was a E-6 at the time that happend and am E-8 now.

[osujl]

I tried to keep the post short and positive but yes I saw alot and I mean alot of leadership (officers and senior NCOs) get in alot of trouble. It might have just been my unit or it might have been serving in the miliitary during a time when we were rapidly expanding and fighting 2 wars. I saw an emphasis on quantity instead of quality and it hurt.

I saw a SGM get UCMJ charges for sleeping with enlisted females, 2 majors busted for corruption (Iraqi reconstruction projects in the Green Zone), a Captain busted for adultery, a major receive multiple DUIs, E-8 busted for fraud with Iraqi contractors and having a fully stocked bar in his living quarters, etc., etc. etc. I could go on forever. The most memorable was a 1LT that threatened to kill a battalion commander in front of an audience. He was relieved of his XO duties and received a negative letter but no UCMJ. He had an honorable discharge on his 214 but anytime he has a background investigation it obviously hurts. I have applied to many different agencies and they always ask if you "have ever been charged" or "faced judicial punishment." It sounded to me as if you don't have to be convicted but you should put down anything questionable about your history because it could look like deception when the background investigator finds it and they seem to find out everything.

I understand that promotions in the Air Force and Navy can be very, very competitive and I apologize if I offended anyone. I have only served in the army (officer-5 years) and the Marine Corps (enlisted). All of my soldiers in the army made E-4 very, very fast and the hard chargers could make E-5 easily within 3-4 years (I saw this happen alot). In my opinion we had alot of people make E-5 that were not mature enough to be NCOs but that is another debate. I had "special" people in my platoon and company that spent 7-8 years as an E-4 because they couldn't make E-5. That was the reason for the dirtbag comment but keep in mind these people were truly "special." In the Marine Corps an E-4 is considered an NCO and most guys can make that easily within their first enlistment.

Again I don't regret my time in military more good times than bad and it is a great way to get real life experience! The military is what you make of it!

[retdetsgt]

I know one LT that had a letter put in his file by a 2 Star Division Commander because he got caught fraternizing with Enlisted Females. He found me in Afghanistan my last time over there. He got out and got into the Reserves and is now a LTC.

I did a "Try One" in the NG when I got out in 1970. They would let you sign up for only a year to see if you liked it or not. I didn't. The guard is a lot better now, but then the officers were scary, especially the field grade. They looked at it as some kind of social thing where they got to dress up. Few had done any active time other than attend a branch school and do their two week summer camps over the years. I did one summer camp at Ft. Lewis and got the hell out. The very thought of being activated was horrible. But if someone showed the least bit of competence, they would shoot right up in rank, enlisted or officer. I think the reserves were better though.

I know one that got busted for falsifying military records and reduced to E-4 (from E-6), was forced to reclass MOS's from MP to Infantry, and just made the E-9 list. I was a E-6 at the time that happend and am E-8 now.

Again, I've been out for a long time, but the infantry used to be pretty forgiving. It was sort of like a French Foreign Legion for misfits in other MOS's who screwed up and sought salvation. Over time, I had a couple of guys in my platoon that didn't start out infantry, but were sent there. One flunked out of radar repair school and turned out to be a hell of a junior NCO. I can't recall where the other one came from, but he turned out to be a pretty good soldier.

We had one guy that was a nightmare. He was a Korean War vet who held the DSC so the Army tolerated behavior from him that they wouldn't from very many. I have no idea how often he went up and down in rank. He was an E-3 when I first knew him and had 18 years in. He was coming up from E-1 again. The CO told me they were trying to get up him as high as possible and then tell him he had to retire at 20. It was funny to see in in class A's with all his ribbons and one stripe. I'd seen colonels with fewer ribbons and decorations than him.

He was a likable guy, but looking back on it, it's obvious now that he had PTSD up the kazoo. But back then, nobody recognized it and asking for help was unheard of. In Korea, he'd damn near been a Sgt. York, but he couldn't handle stupid people any longer. Unfortunately, that included some officers. I have no doubt he would have received at least a BCD had it not been for his service record. It was nice to see the Army had a heart when it came to him.

[TSOC357]

All of my soldiers in the army made E-4 very, very fast and the hard chargers could make E-5 easily within 3-4 years (I saw this happen alot).

I made my E-5 in 3 years and made E-8 just under 17 years. It is what it is. I was lucky to get into good units and given the ability to show my skills off and make rank.