Enlisted or Officer

[TSOC357]

That's the problem, your an Iowa farm boy. You were use to getting up and doing 2 hours of chores before you went to school and then coming home to do more chores. The city kids don't get the kick in the rear end like you were use to.

At least 2 hours in the morning, school, after school sports, chores, then homework, then bed. Rinse and repeat.

I was happy when I was 15 and moved to the "City" (1500) and didn't have all the chores to do but during the summer I got sent back out to the farm to work.

Kids that are entering the military (for the most part) aren't use to do stuff like that any more.

[Trip]

At least 2 hours in the morning, school, after school sports, chores, then homework, then bed. Rinse and repeat.

I was happy when I was 15 and moved to the "City" (1500) and didn't have all the chores to do but during the summer I got sent back out to the farm to work.

Kids that are entering the military (for the most part) aren't use to do stuff like that any more.

It's even worse outside the military, TSOC, lol. In DC where I live, this is a big hi-tech area.....and anarchy is the most respected form of management. What? Chain of Command? The kids (and the bigger kids too) have a cow if you even suggest such a concept. Some days I just want to shake them. Actually today was one of them.

[TSOC357]

It's even worse outside the military, TSOC, lol. In DC where I live, this is a big hi-tech area.....and anarchy is the most respected form of management. What? Chain of Command? The kids (and the bigger kids too) have a cow if you even suggest such a concept. Some days I just want to shake them. Actually today was one of them.

That's why I am staying in. I can do 25-30 years, make my SGM and just deal with my Troops and take care of them as best as I can.

[BP348]

In the Marine Corps an E-4 is considered an NCO and most guys can make that easily within their first enlistment.

Air Force used to be like the Army. You had 1 E-4 that was just enlisted and then another E-4 who was a NCO. Normally people made E-4 NCO right about their 4 year mark. I was less then a month away from getting my NCO when USAF completly did away with the position.

[retdetsgt]

Air Force used to be like the Army. You had 1 E-4 that was just enlisted and then another E-4 who was a NCO. Normally people made E-4 NCO right about their 4 year mark. I was less then a month away from getting my NCO when USAF completly did away with the position.

The Navy considers E-4 an NCO also. The Army did the old corporal rank, but I haven't seen anyone with two stripes in decades.

For a short time, (I guess), AF E-4's were called sergeant and given NCO status. But they've changed the names of the first 4 ranks several times over the years. When I was looking into what branch I wanted to go in, I talked to an AF recruiter and he gave me some pamphlets about the AF. I remember that there was an Airman 3rd Class, 2nd Class and an E-4 was an Airman 1st. Then I was on an AF base in the late 60's and recall a three striper being called sergeant. That struck me because their "sergeant" was one rank lower than ours.

Some years later, I was looking at a military pay scale and didn't recognize the names of any of the AF lower ranks.

[BP348]

E-1 = Airman basic
E-2 = Airman
E-3 = Airman First Class
E-4 = Senior Airman
E-4 = Buck Sargent (This rank no longer exists)
E-5 = Staff Sargent
E-6 = Technical Sargent
E-7 = Master Sargent
E-8 = Senior Master Sargent
E-9 = Chief Master Sargent

[TSOC357]

The Army did the old corporal rank, but I haven't seen anyone with two stripes in decades.

Army still has E-4 Corporal rank. Mainly in the Infantry units but other Combat/Combat Support units will award it if needed.

We've got MPs that are at that rank in the BDE but it's mainly due because we are short of NCOs (at times) and we need folks to be team leaders during Combat Ops in the ME. Some Commanders like giving out the CPL rank while others will just have SPCs do it.

It's the same pay either way.

[retdetsgt]

Army still has E-4 Corporal rank. Mainly in the Infantry units but other Combat/Combat Support units will award it if needed.

I never understood the rationale nor the advantage of having specialist grades. As you said, the pay's the same. Some years ago, I saw a soldier wearing Spec-7 insignia. No other branch does that.

[retdetsgt]

E-4 = Senior Airman
E-4 = Buck Sargent (This rank no longer exists)

Did the buck sergeant have different insignia than the Senior Airman?

[TSOC357]

I never understood the rationale nor the advantage of having specialist grades. As you said, the pay's the same. Some years ago, I saw a soldier wearing Spec-7 insignia. No other branch does that.

My opinion is to make them CPL and be done with it, just like the Marine Corps. If you can't handle the rank by the time you make E-4, then you need to go find a new job.

I've seen some pics at the School House in FLW has folks wearing Spec5/6/7 rank. Strange.

[retdetsgt]

My opinion is to make them CPL and be done with it, just like the Marine Corps. If you can't handle the rank by the time you make E-4, then you need to go find a new job.

I've seen some pics at the School House in FLW has folks wearing Spec5/6/7 rank. Strange.

The Navy and Coast Guard are fine with E-4's being NCO's too.

When I spent my one year in the NG, there were several Spec-5's around. I have no idea what they did. I was told there was a Spec-7 who was the CI assigned to the Provost Marshall's office.

I always thought the best classification in the Army was Warrant Officer. I meet several that were engineers and one who was in electronics maintenance. Nobody screwed with them.

[Trip]

EVERYONE thinks the best classification is Warrant Officer Best of both worlds....but they don't exist any more do they? Wait, I think the Cobra pilots were Warrants when they were on our Air Force base in Hawaii.

[BP348]

Did the buck sergeant have different insignia than the Senior Airman?

Yes, I guess you could call it different. The stripes were the same but Buck Sargent the star was colored where with Senior Airman it wasn't. It was enough to tell the difference.

[retdetsgt]

EVERYONE thinks the best classification is Warrant Officer Best of both worlds....but they don't exist any more do they? Wait, I think the Cobra pilots were Warrants when they were on our Air Force base in Hawaii.

The AF did away with them way back when they established E-8's and 9's. The Army still has them. A friend of mine's brother is a WO-4. I dunno about the Navy and Marines. I think the Marines used to call them Master Gunners.

In the Army, they are usually assigned to support type divisions such as engineers, maintenance, etc. The exception is chopper pilots.

[TSOC357]

In the Army, they are usually assigned to support type divisions such as engineers, maintenance, etc. The exception is chopper pilots.

Here's a list (I think it's complete) if Army WO jobs now:

MOS Warrant Officer
131A Field Artillery Targeting Technician
140A Command and Control Systems Technician
140E PATRIOT System Technician
150A Air Traffic Control Technician (Reserve Component only)
151A Aviation Maintenance Technician
153A Rotary Wing Aviator
180A Special Forces Warrant Officer
210A Utilities Operation and Maintenance Technician
215D Terrain Analysis Technician
250N Network Management Technician
251A Information Systems Technician
254A Signal Systems Support Technician
311A CID Special Agent
350B All Source Intelligence Technician
350D Imagery Intelligence Technician
350L Attaché Technician
350U Tactical Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Operations
351B Counterintelligence Technician
351E Human Intelligence Collection Technician
352C Traffic Analysis Technician
352G Voice Intercept Technician
352H Morse Intercept Technician
352J Emanations Analysis Technician
352K Non Morse Intercept Technician
353A Intelligence and Electronic Warfare Technician
420A Military Personnel Technician
420C Bandmaster
550A Legal Administrator
640A Veterinary Services Technician
670A Health Services Maintenance Technician
880A Marine Deck Officer
881A Marine Engineering Officer
882A Mobility Officer
910A Ammunition Technician
913A Armament Repair Technician
914A Allied Trades Technician
915A Unit Maintenance Technician (Light)
918B Electronic Systems Maintenance Technician
918D Electronic Missile Systems Maintenance Technician
919A Engineer Equipment Repair Technician
920A Property Accounting Technician
920B Supply Systems Technician
921A Airdrop Systems Technician
922A Food Service Technician

Also, WO's can now Command Units such as Detachements, Companys, and speciality units.