Injury at Quantico?

[sprk_sprd]

Hello all,

A search of the forums didn't yield what I was looking for, so I'm posting a (hopefully) new topic. As I'm considering re-activating my FBI SA application, I'm wondering what would happen to a NAT who is injured at Quantico. I'm not talking about a bloody nose or something trivial, but rather something more serious like a torn ACL, torn rotator cuff, etc. If the injury is severe enough to prevent the NAT from completing his/her time at Quantico, does anyone know what would happen? For example, would the NAT be given an IA position (i.e. desk job) instead? Or is he/she simply discharged for lack of a better term?

BTW, while I realize injuries may occur at any LE training academy, I'm asking specifically about Quantico since that's where I applied (FBI).

Thanks in advance!

[Citicop]

Once you start training, you're already hired by the FBI, so if you get hurt, workman's comp covers the injury. You get taken out of training, and then cycled back through a later class when you're healed up.

If the injury is so severe that you would be no longer medically qualified to hold the SA positiion, then I imagine you are released from employment with the agency.

-Citicop.

[sprk_sprd]

Thanks, Citicop, for your reply.

I'm 36 now and am aware of the 37 age cutoff for 1811's. Just so I understand, if I get accepted to Quantico and get injured such that my injury may take a while to heal (i.e. pushing me past the age of 37), I may still have a shot at completing the academy? I wouldn't be so worried if I was still in my 20's or early 30's. But considering I'm close to the cutoff age, it's a major concern of mine.

I do realize that this issue has a lot of hypothetical variables and that nothing is guaranteed.

[MikeG]

Thanks, Citicop, for your reply.

I'm 36 now and am aware of the 37 age cutoff for 1811's. Just so I understand, if I get accepted to Quantico and get injured such that my injury may take a while to heal (i.e. pushing me past the age of 37), I may still have a shot at completing the academy? I wouldn't be so worried if I was still in my 20's or early 30's. But considering I'm close to the cutoff age, it's a major concern of mine.

I do realize that this issue has a lot of hypothetical variables and that nothing is guaranteed.

Just a bit of curiosity question that's related:

In our state retirement system, when you are hired for training you're not in the Public Safety pension program. After you are sworn, you transfer to the PS retirement system. You then have the option of purchasing your prior time (pre-sworn) in the PS system.

It's sort of related to your situation if you can purchase your time that you spent training, you can get your "20 years" in before the mandatory retirement age which is what I think sets the 37 age limit. Theoretically, in state system, you could be out for years prior to being sworn and purchase that time when you get sworn and your clock starts on your hire date, not your sworn date. Am I thinking right or is it different?

[Joeyd6]

If you go to an academy in shape, and did not lie about any pre-existing injuries/conditions, you should be fine. While most get some injury in the academy (shin splints, strains, sprains), they are not the type you get you removed for.

While there are a few exceptions, those types of injuries are rare. The staff there is not out to hurt aynone. They will train you. In rare case somebody goes home, usually (not always), it is because you or somebody else was doing something the way they were not taught or without proper supervision. Considering the thousands that went through FLETC last year, their report online states there were seven who left as a result of injuries.

[sprk_sprd]

Joeyd6,

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it!

[sprk_sprd]

Just a bit of curiosity question that's related:

In our state retirement system, when you are hired for training you're not in the Public Safety pension program. After you are sworn, you transfer to the PS retirement system. You then have the option of purchasing your prior time (pre-sworn) in the PS system.

It's sort of related to your situation if you can purchase your time that you spent training, you can get your "20 years" in before the mandatory retirement age which is what I think sets the 37 age limit. Theoretically, in state system, you could be out for years prior to being sworn and purchase that time when you get sworn and your clock starts on your hire date, not your sworn date. Am I thinking right or is it different?

MikeG,

I'm not sure if your question was directed at me. I'm merely a Fed applicant, so I really don't know. But from all the time I've spent reading this forum, another LE forum, as well as certain FLE agencies' websites, I don't think the Feds offer what you described. The only thing that may be somewhat related is veterans preference - and even then I'm not sure if that's close enough to your state hiring/retirement system.

Hopefully someone else can chime in.

[Maverick24]

MikeG,

I'm not sure if your question was directed at me. I'm merely a Fed applicant, so I really don't know. But from all the time I've spent reading this forum, another LE forum, as well as certain FLE agencies' websites, I don't think the Feds offer what you described. The only thing that may be somewhat related is veterans preference - and even then I'm not sure if that's close enough to your state hiring/retirement system.

Hopefully someone else can chime in.

In the FEDS under the 6c (law enf) retirement system your retirement clock begins the day your first day on the job. All the time training at the academy before you get your badge counts toward retirement.

[Wolfman]

(1) What would happen to a NAT who is injured at Quantico.

(2) If the injury is severe enough to prevent the NAT from completing his/her time at Quantico, does anyone know what would happen?

=WARNING: LONG REPLY=

(1) Like Citicop said, on Day 2 you are sworn in as a SA in training and any injury which happens on the job is treated as workman's comp. The catch comes on the seriousness of the injury. Training at Quantico is around 21 weeks.

If you are injured severely enough to require you to have recuperation within a "reasonable" amount of time, then you would probably continue with a more junior class (called "rolling back"). As an example, you sprain your ankle at week 10, recuperate, and rollback in with another class starting around week 9/10.

If you are more seriously injured (example: back injury/broken bones, etc) then you you would probably be sent back to your office of recruitment to do gopher-jobs while you heal. If you are back within a reasonable amount of time, then you would roll back in with the same week that you exited (like the example above); however, if you were injured so severely that it caused you to be out past 90 days, then you would have to begin again at Week 1. This happened to a guy who rolled into my class who was injured, spent months recovering, and had to begin training again (he was at Week 16ish).

If you are injured so badly that you are no longer able to fulfill the duties of a SA, then the Bureau may offer you another type of job (IA, SOS, etc.) but it is entirely dependent on what their needs are at the time, and if your background fits what they want for that job.

As for the age, once you are sworn into a Federal LEO status (to my knowledge) you are good to go, so if you made it to class then you are good as long as you don't *drop* out and then have to reapply.

Injuries happen a lot at Quantico, even speaking with guys from other federal agencies who transferred in, they happened more than in my Police Academy as well. I have heard of broken noses, messed up backs, concussions, all kinds of leg issues; there's a lot of torquing around in DT, so that's a lot of it I'm sure.

Just be sure if you get there and get injured, you report it. If you already have an injury, you should be honest about it during your medical screening, not only because it could save you some pain later, but lying about it could be cause for dismissal later if it is uncovered (candor issue).

AS A NOTE: If you are nearing 37, apply to as many Fed LEO organizations as you can, if you are still interested later you can always apply for a transfer.

Hope it helps and good luck in the applicant process.

[MikeG]

Awesome. That's even better than having to buy your time.

And it sounds like even if your injured and rolled back, your start date at the academy is when the age (must not be 37) matters, not the graduation/swearing in day?

[Nole795]

Your date of hire is the first day of work. Whether you report to an office for HR, or the first day at the academy. It changes with each agency. For the most part, most agencies have a starting date on the first day of the academy.

Good luck to you.

[Kimble]

Your date of hire is the first day of work. Whether you report to an office for HR, or the first day at the academy. It changes with each agency. For the most part, most agencies have a starting date on the first day of the academy.

Good luck to you.

As everyone else has said, on day one forward you're a special agent with FBI in the eyes of the US Office of Personnel Management (the HR agency for the federal gov't), whether you're in training, haven't begun training, or out of training and working in the field. In OPM's eyes, if you get hurt on day one on-the-job, you fall under Federal Employees Compensation Act (federal worker's comp) benefits if your injury qualifies. Also, the whole 37 year age clock stops on day one, as that's a OPM regulation and you're a special agent in their eyes (even if the FBI explains you're actually a trainee in their eyes, you haven't been sworn-in, etc).

[Wolfman]

The date you receive as your Academy start date is your first day of work - called an EOD (Entry on Duty). You're in the Bureau on that day. On the second day you are sworn in and become a special agent, though still in training.

So even if you roll back, your EOD remains the same

[UpOnBase2]

We had guys from previous classes rolled back into my group for UD.

One guy had an EOD almost 11 months before us, he was up for Sgt way before the remainder of the class.

The date you receive as your Academy start date is your first day of work - called an EOD (Entry on Duty). You're in the Bureau on that day. On the second day you are sworn in and become a special agent, though still in training.

So even if you roll back, your EOD remains the same

[sprk_sprd]

I want to genuinely thank all of you for your input. I really appreciate the feedback - especially the long replies!

I officially re-submitted my application for the FBI SA opening via USAJobs last week. I'll call my local FO this week just to make sure they received it and to go over any questions they may have about me re-applying.

In case anyone is interested, my timeline and background is as follows:

June 2004 - initial app
Aug 2004 - Phase I - passed
Oct/Nov (?) 2004 - Phase II - passed
April 2005 - Med, PSI, poly - passed
April 2005 - PFT - failed

B.S. Biology, MBA, some I.T. experience, some foreign language