ICE and FLETC-A woman's perspective

[dnj1107]

I am starting this thread because I am awaiting a final call for the ICE 1811 position...and I happen to be a woman. I notice that most of the posts are from what seem to be men, and I would like to get a woman's perspective on the FLETC experience and working as a woman in any federal agency. Are there any women out there that have been through FLETC, work within a federal agency, or are anywhere in the hiring process that can share their experiences. Help some fellow sisters learn from your experiences! :biggrin5

[Joeyd6]

I am starting this thread because I am awaiting a final call for the ICE 1811 position...and I happen to be a woman. I notice that most of the posts are from what seem to be men, and I would like to get a woman's perspective on the FLETC experience and working as a woman in any federal agency. Are there any women out there that have been through FLETC, work within a federal agency, or are anywhere in the hiring process that can share their experiences. Help some fellow sisters learn from your experiences! :biggrin5

Your question quite frankly puts a sour taste in my mouth.

I have been through a State Police academy, a local academy and two federal academies. There were women in all of my classes. None wanted to be treated differently than their men counterparts and none were. Law enforcement is a team concept. One person fails, you all fail. There is no male or female, as there is no Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, or Indian. We are all one, BLUE, even those guys in the Border Patrol who wear green. I don't think there is a womens or mans perspective of FLETC. Only difference is you will wear a sports bra in PT (which some of the guys may need as well) and you get your monthly visitor.

And there are a few things at FLETC that go for all:

a) What happens at FLETC never stays at FLETC.
b) FLETC love with married folks is going to happen. Don't voice your opinion (positive or negative) to your classmates about it when it does.
c) Try not to have FLETC love with anyone from your own agency, it will only complicate your career later.
d) When you get to your room, knock on your bathroom buddies door and find out what time they shower and plan on using the bathroom. That little thing can let you plan ahead and make life a lot easier.

[dnj1107]

Thank you for your advice. My apologies for any distant my post caused. I absolutely agree with the other women in that I want to be treated equally. My question was only to find out if they ARE treated equally, and to find out if they seemed to have more difficulty with certain aspects of FLETC. I understand that LE is a team effort, but the world does not always treat those they should equally. Reality is that there are experiences women will have in life that you may not realize, as well as men will have experiences that women may never realize. But I am greatful for your input regarding the equality within FLETC Academy, I am glad to here that. Thanks for all of your advice.

[CharlieFed]

Hi,
I have been to FLETC training, though not as an agent. Believe it or not I find that women, I am a woman, are treated differently!! And not all of it revolves around sex as has been eluded to. Physical standards are different for women in a lot, if not all, agencies. So there is that but I never had to do any PT for my position. Classes have the usual politics going on - teacher pets, know-it-alls, those that don't care. Just don't be an extreme stereotype in any way and there should be no worries. There is a lot of time out of training that you can have fun with without worries if you make some good friends - male and female that will have your back. Just like in college - don't go out alone. You will have plenty of time to get to know people in class that you know who will have your back when you go out week 3 or 4. I was personally too busy studying and settling in to go out before that. Have fun and treat it as a job because it is. Be professional and work hard! Congrats

[Kimble]

Hi,
I have been to FLETC training, though not as an agent.

Charlie,

It is the policy of this site that anyone who claims to be a law enforcement officer be verified, which I'm happy to help you do. Here's the information on this site's verification process: http://www.realpolice.net/forums/gen...s-updated.html

Please send me a PM and I will promptly verify you, which will also allow you access to our LE-restricted forums.

Thanks.

[dnj1107]

Thank you for yoru advice. That is exactly the type of information I was looking for. I am sure I will be very busy studying because I am too determined to fail, but I hope to make some friends along the way that I can trust to have my back as you have said. Thanks again.

[CharlieFed]

My pleasure. I didn't mean to imply I was an LEO - I was just a federal inspector- but my FLETC experience was fun and interesting and I made friends for life. I did get homesick, but email helps a lot. It is a unique experience that you should treat with respect and get excited for a new adventure.

[tanksoldier]

None wanted to be treated differently than their men counterparts and none were.

I can't speak from a FLEO perspective, but I can speak as a professional Soldier and NCO who has lead both males and females in the field and in a combat environment.

The female military personnel I worked with directly were ALL outstanding troops. They wanted and accepted no special consideration. That said while female Soldiers can and do perform well in the field having one on your team is NOT the same as having a small male on your team. There ARE things you have to take into consideration as a leader.

I can also see a female trainee wondering about any real or perceived differences in the way women are treated at FLETC or any other similar environment. I personally didn't perceive dnj1107's post as anything other than an attempt to satisfy that curiosity.

[BP348]

Physical standards are different for women in a lot, if not all, agencies.

That may be true for most agencies but not U.S. Border Patrol. Physical Standards are the same for both Males & Females in USBP. One of the reasons I like USBP so much.

[tanksoldier]

That may be true for most agencies but not U.S. Border Patrol. Physical Standards are the same for both Males & Females in USBP. One of the reasons I like USBP so much.

If so it just means they reduced the standards for everyone.

The joint standards may be somewhat higher than a purely female standard would be, but they are also assuredly lower than a separate male standard would be.

[Jennifer]

Where's Blue when you need her?

I have not been to FLETC but I am in the Federal hiring process and so far I don't see any differences. I know that there are differences in the PT but that's been the only difference I see.

[Switchback]

That may be true for most agencies but not U.S. Border Patrol. Physical Standards are the same for both Males & Females in USBP. One of the reasons I like USBP so much.

Now THAT is good to hear! On an SRT that I was on and for all of our SOG requirements (except the fit test) there is only 1 standard. Your age and sex does not matter. And, in case you are wondering about what type of physical standards outside of the fit test that I am referring to, the include: 5 mile ruck run, 3 mile run, swimming tests, etc.

If so it just means they reduced the standards for everyone.

The joint standards may be somewhat higher than a purely female standard would be, but they are also assuredly lower than a separate male standard would be.

You are right. However, THAT is not the issue here. Regardless of what the standards are, it makes no sense saying that a woman doing a job needs to do a lower standard than a man doing the same job. I don't care if we are talking about LE, the military, a fire department, or any other job that has physical standards. A determination needs to be made about what is required to safely complete the job that is independent of WHO is doing it...regardless of sex or age. A bandit is not going to fight less because you are a woman or in your mid 50s, as opposed to a 27 year old guy.

Where's Blue when you need her?

I have not been to FLETC but I am in the Federal hiring process and so far I don't see any differences. I know that there are differences in the PT but that's been the only difference I see.

She didn't gp through FLETC for her current position, so she is in the same boat as you.

Finally,

...I absolutely agree with the other women in that I want to be treated equally. My question was only to find out if they ARE treated equally, and to find out if they seemed to have more difficulty with certain aspects of FLETC. I understand that LE is a team effort, but the world does not always treat those they should equally. Reality is that there are experiences women will have in life that you may not realize, as well as men will have experiences that women may never realize...

I have to say that it's a bit unnerving to have people say that they only want to be treated equal, but go asking for help from their "sisters"... or to automatically assume that they will be treated different. I never put a post out, asking for the input of middle-aged white males for their input. I simply ask for people's input who have been there/done that. I may ask if there are any bald guys, in case I need sunblock recommendations or something, but that is about as specific as I may get.

It's my opinion that most that come into situations with these opinions (wanting to be treated equal, while assuming that that will not be the case) are the first ones to blame anything that goes wrong on inequalities. You see, most of us would first look to ourselves to see what we can do to improve the situation.

Now, I particularly like your little statement about women having different experiences than men. EVERYONE has unique experiences. It's the sexists and racists that think that these experiences are more tied to race and sex than other factors that can play a much larger factor (the family environment that you grew up in, your upbringing in general, your education, how well you get along with others, etc.).

FLETC is more like a college campus. Assuming that you have been to college (being it is an 1811 job that you claim to be getting hired into), that is the closest analogy I could think of... as it certainly is much more like college than anything int he military. Just go there, have some fun and try to stay awake. The hardest part about FLETC is getting there, followed only by staying awake in class. LOL

[Jennifer]

She didn't gp through FLETC for her current position, so she is in the same boat as you.

I know, but she is hard core and she is a LEO. I know that her .2 would be worthwhile.

[Big Sexy]

I have not been to FLETC but I am in the Federal hiring process and so far I don't see any differences.

BIG has to ask, what differences would you expect to see? Different color applications? Different rooms for male & female interviewees?

If you haven't been hired, are not an employee, have never been to FLETC, not an ICE LEO, what differences can you reasonably speak upon?

[dnj1107]

Switchback,

Your response to the post is why I wanted a women's perspective. Being a male you may not realize certain experiences that women in the academy may have had. My post was not to assume there is a difference, but to find out IF there is. You claim FLETC is much like college, and I am sure that I had a different college experience than some men have had. It is very narrow-minded to assume that everyone is always treated equally. In a perfect world, yes, there would be no difference in the treatment of men and women. In a perfect world women would always be paid the same as a man for the same job (not speaking of LE), women would never have to concern themselves with being slipped a date rape drug. REALITY is that this world is imperfect, and thus said, my post was simply an inquiry to find out if the imperfections of this world are transferred to the FLETC academy. I understand everyone has their own opinions, and I was aware this post would probably offend some males. Reviewing the different posts within this thread proves to me that there is a difference in the way men and women experience certain aspects of FLETC. But thank you for all of the advice offered, because you have made it clear that although there are not major differences there are indeed SOME differences. Finally, although some of the males have a distaste for my post, I will always work as hard as anyone in the academy regardless of gender!