Fbi s/a-need advice

[vu007]

Just a little background....Applied for FBI S/A position in 2007.... started testing in 2008 , Passed Phase 1, Passed....language test, Passed....Phase 2, Passed....PFT, then comes Poly....failed (did not lie, but failed). Recieved letter, stating recinded letter of employment. Due to the FOIPA (Freedom of Information Privacy Act) I wrote a letter asking to have another chance to take poly, recieved response letter stating; long story short "No". Wrote another letter, asking for the results of the poly test, or why I had failed...recieved letter stating case file could not be found, also states that FOIPA request will be closed if no response from me is given (odd that FBI misplaced my file). Therefore, wrote another letter asking to invesitgate the issue, to again ask for reason why failed poly or why recieved letter of rescind of employment. Recieved letter stating records office looking into the matter.

What my question is, should I keep pursuing this? Is there hope to become a FBI S/A. What should I do? (any help from current FBI S/A, FBI supervisors, FBI employment coordinator, or anyone with some information, please respond.
Sorry for the long thread....Please help!

[basher52]

I do not know how successful you will be getting the info you seek, but I would at least try and get a reason. Better yet, try and find out if this will follow you or not, should you seek other LE employment.

THEN, be thankful (IMHO) you didn't get the FBI S/A job and move on. You can do far better (again IMHO) with any number of other FED agencys.

[Group9]

Honestly, I don't think you chances of getting a reconsideration are strong, based on several incidents similar to yours I am familiar with.

The FBI is a little different culturally from most law enforcement agencies, and it starts with the hiring process.

[BP348]

Honestly, I don't think you chances of getting a reconsideration are strong, based on several incidents similar to yours I am familiar with.

The FBI is a little different culturally from most law enforcement agencies, and it starts with the hiring process.

+1

The poly test is a funny thing. I have a friend who's with NCIS but had applied with DEA. He faild his poly with DEA not because the test said he lied but because the guy giving the test wrote his report and said he thought he was being dishonest. So just because the examiner thought he was being dishonest, the poly test didn't matter, he was out.

If you're that set on FBI then your best bet is to reapply.

[Group9]

+1

The poly test is a funny thing. I have a friend who's with NCIS but had applied with DEA. He faild his poly with DEA not because the test said he lied but because the guy giving the test wrote his report and said he thought he was being dishonest. So just because the examiner thought he was being dishonest, the poly test didn't matter, he was out.

If you're that set on FBI then your best bet is to reapply.

Agreed. The problem with saying the polygraph is accurate is like saying a Model 36 .38 special is accurate. They both are inherently accurate, with the right person operating them. Both are woefully inaccurate with the wrong person operating them.


Agencies will frequently discount other agencies polygraph results, while treating their own like the holy grail, however.

[Edited to say I meant I agreed about polygraphs being a funny thing, not about reapplying with the FBI. If you have failed their polygraph (or any agency's polygraph),you are done with that agency. Rightly or wrongly, it is viewed as an integrity issue and that is hard to repair.]

[vu007]

spoke to applicant coordinator, she said I could not apply....I did not understand why I couldn't.

[Kimble]

spoke to applicant coordinator, she said I could not apply....I did not understand why I couldn't.

I think Group9's response says it all:

Agencies will frequently discount other agencies polygraph results, while treating their own like the holy grail, however.

If you're interested in federal LE, I'd focus your efforts on applying to other agencies. Continuing to beat yourself up because the FBI has closed their door to you will do nothing productive for you. Good luck.

[Joeyd6]

Just a little background....Applied for FBI S/A position in 2007.... started testing in 2008 , Passed Phase 1, Passed....language test, Passed....Phase 2, Passed....PFT, then comes Poly....failed (did not lie, but failed). Recieved letter, stating recinded letter of employment.

Not unusual!

Due to the FOIPA (Freedom of Information Privacy Act) I wrote a letter asking to have another chance to take poly, recieved response letter stating; long story short "No".

This is highly unusual. The FOIPA is for a person requesting documents. It is to say "I want documents related to this under the FIOA." Not to request a re-try or second chance. You are lucky they even responded because they could of just ignored it. Bit I am sure it got a few chuckles that somebody who wants to enforce laws was completely misusing a civil law to get information they were not entitled to.

Wrote another letter, asking for the results of the poly test, or why I had failed...recieved letter stating case file could not be found, also states that FOIPA request will be closed if no response from me is given (odd that FBI misplaced my file).

Nobody misplaced anything. You are operating under the impression that the government works with speed and efficiency. Odds are your are forgetting that FBI HR specialist in their office are awaiting documents from the polygraph guy/gal, that often takes quite a bit of time. Then they have to do a closing report for the file which eventually gets signed off by the boss and then sent to the archives. Then some clerk has to actually get your folder, create a file and then file it when they finally get to it in their large stack. Plan on it not being marked "closed" and filed for at least 6 months, closer to a year. FOIPA only applies to closed and filed material. So you put the horse way in front of the cart. That is why there is "no record" yet

Therefore, wrote another letter asking to investigate the issue, to again ask for reason why failed poly or why recieved letter of rescind of employment.

That was dumb. You are not entitled to know why you failed the poly or why they don't want to hire you. Hard to believe, but true. You are not entitled to the job. They can yank it form you at any time, for any reason and never have to tell you why. Maybe the interviewer did not like your tie or somebody overheard a comment you say.

Recieved letter stating records office looking into the matter.

But the GOV takes FIO requests seriously, especially when you accuse them of losing a file. They sent e-mails from FOIA to HQ command staff to the regional SAC and down to the agents who handeled your folder. Your name has now been floated from the FOI Office all the way back to the local officials processing you. Great job at making sure they all know who you are and your demands. It does not take long to see who is making waves and who will cause problems when hired. You added a nice big fat black mark by your name if they see it again.

What my question is, should I keep pursuing this?

No. You are only going to make the hole deeper!

Is there hope to become a FBI S/A. What should I do? (any help from current FBI S/A, FBI supervisors, FBI employment coordinator, or anyone with some information, please respond.

If you didn't spit off so many letters demanding things you were not entitled to, around here they tell people to reapply after 24-36 months. I am not sure who gave what advice or taught you to handle your personal matters this way, but you handled the whole thing wrong.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are, how much work experience do you have?

[gma21]

I'm in a similiar situation.

Last month I failed an fbi employment poly (not for an 1811 position, it was in their intelligence division). I told the truth but was told I had a reaction to the question regarding drug use. The examiner kept asking me if there was anything else I could tell him about my drug history (asking me if instead of 3 times, it was 4 or 5 times, ect.). Long story short, I told him that I was being truthful and my answers would not change.

I've posted my story previously, but when I read basher52 comments "Better yet, try and find out if this will follow you or not, should you seek other LE employment.", it made me feel sick...

I will be 27 in about a month, have good work history (corporate investigations and executive protection) and a BA. The fbi position was the first LE (I know it wasn't a real LE job, but I just am being general) job that I really pursued, and it ended with a failed poly. I got a letter a few weeks ago saying they rescinded my COE, "but it does not constitute a security denial and can honestly answer no to the question if asked on future applications."

I really have no interest in re-applying to the agency....I'm admittedly bitter, however I recently sent applications to the FAMs and a large city department. Overall, I'm a very good candidate and pretty competitive in the application process. However, I'm worried that this failed poly is going to follow me. I understand I will have to explain it, which will be humiliating, but in your opinions....what are my chances of still getting a job in LE.

I suppose Federal LE is my overall goal, but I'm mostly looking at large city departments. Some require poly's, some don't.

Is a failed fbi poly an automatic DQ? If nto a DQ, is it going to be such a black mark that I will just be dropped during the BI process?

The agencies I recently applied to dont require polys, but I understand this issue will still be discussed.

Could someone please inform me on the proper way to go about this. Should I write a letter and request my file/re-take? Should I just save myself future embaressment and pull my current apps?

A career in LE is what I want, and it's something I feel strongly about. Right now I'm just scared to death that this experience will prevent my from fullfilling my goals.

I appreciate everyones advice.

[Group9]

As I said before, a failed FBI poly won't mean anything to DEA, for instance, or vice versa. DEA would give you their own poly and whether you passed or failed anyone else's would be immaterial to them.

As far as I know, it works that way for most LE agencies. LE knows, that if you don't personally know the polygrapher, you don't know how accurate the results are.

The best polygrapher I ever knew (and the most accurate) probably gave a report saying he wasn't sure half the time. But, when he said he was sure, he always turned out to be right. And, his view was that most bad readings were where management or an investigator pushed the polygrapher to make a call one way or the other, when the operator didn'twant to do that.

Some agencies I have worked for and with, which shall remain nameless, have polygraphers with a very poor reputation, for that very reason.

[Agent_Chaos714]

As I said before, a failed FBI poly won't mean anything to DEA, for instance, or vice versa. DEA would give you their own poly and whether you passed or failed anyone else's would be immaterial to them.

As far as I know, it works that way for most LE agencies. LE knows, that if you don't personally know the polygrapher, you don't know how accurate the results are.

The best polygrapher I ever knew (and the most accurate) probably gave a report saying he wasn't sure half the time. But, when he said he was sure, he always turned out to be right. And, his view was that most bad readings were where management or an investigator pushed the polygrapher to make a call one way or the other, when the operator didn'twant to do that.

Some agencies I have worked for and with, which shall remain nameless, have polygraphers with a very poor reputation, for that very reason.

Group9,
I take it you are DEA, i am interested in pursuing this field eventually, how long was the hiring process?

as far as the poly's go I 100% agree with you may pass today then go to a different agency who is asking the same questions, and fail tomorrow....the advise I was given was to relax, and develop a rapport with the polygraph'er and tell the truth....I did this and passed, even though he said i almost failed 1 question on the 2nd test "is your last name *****??" go figure the one question of all that i would never have a reason to be dishonest about....we both laughed at that and went from there... I have heard numerous accounts where once you fail one agency's poly, there is no use in applying for THAT agency again... Good Luck

[gma21]

Thanks for that response, it is definitly the most informative information I have been given regarding the poly.

Like I said, I'm bitter and lost my interest in the agency, so overall I suppose I'm better off. The job wasn't what I really wanted to do either, it just gave me a foot in the door.

I was just scared that the FAMS, USSS, or local PD would see that I failed a poly and basically find a reason to eliminate me, or that it would lower my stock enough compared to other applicants that would make me less competitive.

ALSO, I'm gunshy of the poly. I wasn't to nervous going into the one I failed (first and only poly to date), but I've been obsessing over that fact that I didn't pass, thus creating some serious anxiety about taking another exam for a different agency. Basically I'm paranoid about being asked the drug question because I was told I failed it the first time (which is BS).

Oh well, no reason to keep beating this horse. I appreciate your response, takes the pressure off a little bit.

[Group9]

Group9,
I take it you are DEA, i am interested in pursuing this field eventually, how long was the hiring process?

For me? Nine months (and there was one guy who only took six months in my class). But, that was a long while ago.

Two to five years seems the norm these days.

[Agent_Chaos714]

Thanks for that response, it is definitly the most informative information I have been given regarding the poly.

Like I said, I'm bitter and lost my interest in the agency, so overall I suppose I'm better off. The job wasn't what I really wanted to do either, it just gave me a foot in the door.

I was just scared that the FAMS, USSS, or local PD would see that I failed a poly and basically find a reason to eliminate me, or that it would lower my stock enough compared to other applicants that would make me less competitive.

ALSO, I'm gunshy of the poly. I wasn't to nervous going into the one I failed (first and only poly to date), but I've been obsessing over that fact that I didn't pass, thus creating some serious anxiety about taking another exam for a different agency. Basically I'm paranoid about being asked the drug question because I was told I failed it the first time (which is BS).

Oh well, no reason to keep beating this horse. I appreciate your response, takes the pressure off a little bit.

No Problem,
Sounds to me like you've got it figured out, don't stress and saturate applications elsewhere, If LE is your goal and your dream, then keep plugging, because if you are honest, aren't in debt over your head, and have a fairly clean record then you have a shot somewhere, granted other places are more competitive than others....at this point your only failure would be giving up!!!!;)

Good Luck

[vu007]

Thanks for the responses. After reading the responses, I've let this issue go. Trying to get into other LE agencies now.