DHS and Upcoming Election

[explcdt8]

What do you think should and will happen to the Department of Homeland Security after the election, in terms of orginizational structure?

What I think would make the most sense is:

Make Customs one agency and Immigration Border one agency. I don't see how it makes sense to have Immigration/Customs Enforcement in one agency and Customs and Border inspections/patrol in another. To me, that is like saying City PD patrols this area, but 911 calls are responded to by the Sheriff.

Remove FPS from ICE, I don't see how policing federal buildings is an Immigration or a Customs issue.

TSA- Back to the drawing board; total reorginization

FEMA- Depends on how they handle Gustav and any other hurricane, tornado, flood or winter weather disaster between now and 1/20/2009.

What do you think.

[Piggy]

I think if the dems get into Office you won't have to worry about it. With the 3,000 new federal agencies they will create, reorganization won't really matter.

[charlydevo]

What do you think should and will happen to the Department of Homeland Security after the election, in terms of orginizational structure?

What I think would make the most sense is:

Make Customs one agency and Immigration Border one agency. I don't see how it makes sense to have Immigration/Customs Enforcement in one agency and Customs and Border inspections/patrol in another. To me, that is like saying City PD patrols this area, but 911 calls are responded to by the Sheriff.

Remove FPS from ICE, I don't see how policing federal buildings is an Immigration or a Customs issue.

TSA- Back to the drawing board; total reorginization

FEMA- Depends on how they handle Gustav and any other hurricane, tornado, flood or winter weather disaster between now and 1/20/2009.

What do you think.

Here's my take on what should happen. It has nothing to do with what will happen:

Separate the customs and immigration components of ICE. Put the customs components into CBP and make them criminal investigators for CBP. They can handle port of entry cases. Take the immigration components and divvy them out to the Border Patrol, CIS, and DRO. Then, the Border Patrol can have its own criminal investigators to handle their smuggling cases, CIS can have its own criminal investigators to handle all of its fraud cases, and DRO (which would no longer be ICE DRO) can be the non-border immigration enforcement agency with its own criminal investigators to handle alien smuggling, visa fraud, human trafficking, etc. It makes sense to me. But, what the hell do I know?

[Maverick24]

I think if the dems get into Office you won't have to worry about it. With the 3,000 new federal agencies they will create, reorganization won't really matter.

LMAO! Right on!

Personally I dont think they will change much at all (except maybe the budgets). I just dont see them messing with the ICE structure again anytime soon, it would be too expensive and create more of a mess (although what charley said makes a hell of a lot more SENSE but this is the G we are talking about).

[chewy]

Here's my take on what should happen. It has nothing to do with what will happen:

Separate the customs and immigration components of ICE. Put the customs components into CBP and make them criminal investigators for CBP. They can handle port of entry cases. Take the immigration components and divvy them out to the Border Patrol, CIS, and DRO. Then, the Border Patrol can have its own criminal investigators to handle their smuggling cases, CIS can have its own criminal investigators to handle all of its fraud cases, and DRO (which would no longer be ICE DRO) can be the non-border immigration enforcement agency with its own criminal investigators to handle alien smuggling, visa fraud, human trafficking, etc. It makes sense to me. But, what the hell do I know?

That would be nice. I'd love to be able to get back to Customs related enforcement and not worry about Immigration stuff. There's a reason I didn't join INS and now, after 10 years to have to try to keep up with smuggling and cargo, duty etc AND learn a whole other job with INS stuff is just too much. They could even have CBP, then CBP BP, CBP Customs and CBP INS. Like you said, each would be just like before but with a more streamlined upper management system and each would have it's own 1811's back to simplify things.

[explcdt8]

Does anyone think that this would actually happen?

As Piggy said, if the Dems win, I doubt it. But if the Republicans win?

[chewy]

Nope. Doesn't matter who is in charge, they probably aren't going to spend the money and effort re-organizing... that would just admidt that they screwed up in the first place.

The only thing that really happens when a new president comes to power is we get a new commissioner and the first thing they do is change our uniform... Only about one shade of blue but they'll spend millions of dollars changing the uniform and buying us all replacement uniforms.

[Group9]

That would be nice. I'd love to be able to get back to Customs related enforcement and not worry about Immigration stuff. There's a reason I didn't join INS and now, after 10 years to have to try to keep up with smuggling and cargo, duty etc AND learn a whole other job with INS stuff is just too much. They could even have CBP, then CBP BP, CBP Customs and CBP INS. Like you said, each would be just like before but with a more streamlined upper management system and each would have it's own 1811's back to simplify things.

Obama certainly doesn't give the impression that he sees enforcement of our immigration laws as a priority. But, on the other hand, he doesn't seem to give the impression that he sees enforcement of our smuggling laws as a priority, either. So, who knows what he would do if elected.

[Big Sexy]

Separate the customs and immigration components of ICE.

Here's the question, how do you decide who goes to what? At this point there are quite a few of us who are not legacy anything, but legacy ICE.

Who decides who goes to Customs? Who decides who goes to DRO? Who decides who goes to CIS and so on and so forth?

Do you force someone to go to each component? If you force folks, there's bound to be some legacy Customs guys who will kick, scream and complain once they're placed in another agency which isn't Customs. Is it too bad so sad for them? What about the legacy INS guys who are forced to stay and aren't shipped out, more kicking, screaming and complaining?

Regardless of the method chosen to decide on who goes where, you will still have some folks not satisfied with the outcome. Much as we do now.

[Norm357]

Here's the question, how do you decide who goes to what? At this point there are quite a few of us who are not legacy anything, but legacy ICE.

Who decides who goes to Customs? Who decides who goes to DRO? Who decides who goes to CIS and so on and so forth?

Do you force someone to go to each component? If you force folks, there's bound to be some legacy Customs guys who will kick, scream and complain once they're placed in another agency which isn't Customs. Is it too bad so sad for them? What about the legacy INS guys who are forced to stay and aren't shipped out, more kicking, screaming and complaining?

Regardless of the method chosen to decide on who goes where, you will still have some folks not satisfied with the outcome. Much as we do now.

I don't have a clue what you just said. :confused: Too many abbreviations. :D

[Kimble]

I don't have a clue what you just said. :confused: Too many abbreviations. :D

If only someone had taken the time and effort to create an exhaustive list of federal acronyms, so that those outside of the federal government could follow along in the conversation...


... oh, wait: http://forums.realpolice.net/showthread.php?t=35665

[charlydevo]

Here's the question, how do you decide who goes to what? At this point there are quite a few of us who are not legacy anything, but legacy ICE.

Who decides who goes to Customs? Who decides who goes to DRO? Who decides who goes to CIS and so on and so forth?

Do you force someone to go to each component? If you force folks, there's bound to be some legacy Customs guys who will kick, scream and complain once they're placed in another agency which isn't Customs. Is it too bad so sad for them? What about the legacy INS guys who are forced to stay and aren't shipped out, more kicking, screaming and complaining?

Regardless of the method chosen to decide on who goes where, you will still have some folks not satisfied with the outcome. Much as we do now.

I don't know. But, as long as everybody still has their 1811 jobs when it's all over, it's O.K. with me. It might not be what everybody wants, but it would be better for the U.S. and better for the effective enforcement of our immigration and customs laws. It seems to me that our current system is kind of like telling the NYPD, the PAPD, the Nassau and Suffolk PD's, and all of the local Sheriff's Offices to give up their detectives and investigators so that one separate agency can handle all of their investigative matters for them (as they see fit). That wouldn't make much sense and it wouldn't be too effective, would it?

In my plan, the appropriate agencies would have their own investigative divisions. Not only would that streamline enforcement, but it would give the applicable agents/officers the opportunity to compete for 1811 jobs within their own agencies, based on merit and performance. Would it make sense for an LAPD Officer to have to leave his department and start over with a new agency to get a detective job? That would be stupid, especially if the new agency that he went to handled the investigations stemming from the LAPD.

[Merlin]

As long as we're reorganizing, might as well merge CBP/OFO and Border Patrol and be done with it. Realistically, it's likely to happen at some point anyways, especially now that CBPO's are 6c/12d covered.
Short term at least, this will help smooth over the BP need for 3000K + new agents and put far more qualified agents on the norther border than the current plan of hiring NB hires and shipping them north with only 9 months SB experience.
CBPO's gain a likely morale boost and find greater opportunities with a merger. A win/win for all.

[Creeker]

I think if the dems get into Office you won't have to worry about it. With the 3,000 new federal agencies they will create, reorganization won't really matter.

Since I am intelligent enough to know that I wouldn't be able to comment with any intelligence, I am savvy enough to know that ^this^ is very likely... :rolleyes:

[BP348]

In my plan, the appropriate agencies would have their own investigative divisions. Not only would that streamline enforcement, but it would give the applicable agents/officers the opportunity to compete for 1811 jobs within their own agencies, based on merit and performance. Would it make sense for an LAPD Officer to have to leave his department and start over with a new agency to get a detective job? That would be stupid, especially if the new agency that he went to handled the investigations stemming from the LAPD.

That's something I've never understood. You would never hear of any agency, say LAPD, having all their patrol officers but instead of moving guys from patrol up to an investigator position they hire guys off the street :confused:

That's exactly the way ICE does it with CBPO's & USBP :mad: I know a bunch of BPA's (like hundreds :eek who would love to do investigations. Including any type of immigration or human smuggling type of cases.

I can't speak for everywhere but for the most part the ICE investigators I've met have no desire to work immigration type cases. USBP used to have their own Anti-Smuggling unit investigators but they joined ICE along with the old INS criminal investigators.

Giving USBP agents & nasty old CBPO's :D the oppertunity to some day have the chance to obtain an investigator position would go along way in improving both agencies. Of course this is all a dream and will never happen.

As far as the election goes I really don't think it matters who wins, neither Obama or McCain are pro immigration enforcement :rolleyes: