Poly.. Difference Between Fail and Not Selected?

[BigHoss]

Ok, here is my question, dont know if anyone out there can answer this or not. In the process with the USSS I received the "Thin Letter of Doom" this was about 2 months after I took the poly. Ofcourse I assume that it is because of the poly, where I was "not disclosing all information about drug use", but that is a different topic for discussion. Anyway, I contacted the personnell office for the USSS to get more info on why I was not selected. the following letter I received tells me nothing more than the original letter, was nto selected, very few candidates are selected and the lot. Also the lady in personnell is not able to tell me anything more than what the letter says either.

So, is there a difference between failing the polygraph and not being selected after taking it. After searching previous posts on the website it seems like there is a difference. I would assume that I would receive information stating that I failed the poly, but I didnt get anything that states that. I am really interested in reapplying, but dont know if there is a difference and if I got to the poly again would they even bother giving it to me.

So, after all of that typing, just looking for a little insight or past experience. Has anyone ever gotten on after not being selested after a poly? thanks for any help and info
Hoss

[Maverick24]

I would say there is a difference. Sounds to me like you you were just simply not selected to move to the next step in the process, it dosent necessarily mean you "failed the poly". I have seen many on this board and others get the same thin letter after the poly, and even after the home interview. There usally is no clear explination, as it is just one of those things you have to deal with in a highly competitive process. I wouldnt read all too much into it Hoss. Just put in for other agencies that interest you in the mean time. If the USSS is your dream, by all means apply again in a year. Good Luck!

[rix031]

im confused. you can deduct your answer in from the letter. if it states, "you were not disclosing all information about drug use" well, that is your answer. you were not being completely honest. you said that is a topic for another discussion, but in reality, that was your downfall. i would imagine the secret service receives so many applications that even someone with anything more than a one-time experiment would lead to a rejection letter. you may want to consider an agency that doesnt use the polygraph.

[JakeLock]

you may want to consider an agency that doesnt use the polygraph.

Or just be honest in the first place, what a silly statement that was...

[rix031]

Or just be honest in the first place, what a silly statement that was...

considering this individual has stated that he failed the polygraph due to misleading drug usage answers, he will not be hired by secret service or any other agency that uses the polygraph because drug usage appears to be in his past. if he has never used drugs and the poly was inconclusive is one thing, but that doesnt appear to be the case considering his statement, "that is another topic for discussion."

[JakeLock]

considering this individual has stated that he failed the polygraph due to misleading drug usage answers, he will not be hired by secret service or any other agency that uses the polygraph because drug usage appears to be in his past. if he has never used drugs and the poly was inconclusive is one thing, but that doesnt appear to be the case considering his statement, "that is another topic for discussion."

What I'm referring to is your statement, not his use or history. Basically what your statement says, to me and probably to others, if you fail a polygraph apply to an agency that doesn't use them so you can hide things.

If this person gave us the whole story instead of saying the drug stuff isn't important here we'd be able to give a better answer. This isn't the whole story.

[rix031]

your right. im just not articulating my point correctly. in a nutshell, its ALWAYS best to tell the truth. however, the polygraph is little finicky occasionally. its seems to detect deception when someone may be telling the truth. but, as far as his case goes, it seems like he has a problem at one time in his life and it is going to be a problem in the future, IF it is not a documented incident (i.e. crime). in this case, an agency that doesnt use the polygraph may never know if someone committed a unreported crime. it is an internal secret that wouldnt be detected.

ultimately, this is my .02 and nothing else.

[BigHoss]

let me clear this up. I have never tried any kind of drug, ever. Note even a cigarette. When I was referring to the comment about not disclosing drug history I was talking about the discussion that took place after the poly, not something written in the letter from the personnell department. I personally believe that the agent was trying to get me to admit to something I did not do. You are all welcome to believe whatever you want about the truth of what I had to say. I stand by the truth of my statement and have nothing more to say about that.

So, with that being said, whether you believe me or not. Is there any indication that I could find to determine if I actually failed or was not selected. In both of the written correspondance letters the only information about my status was that I was not selected, no indication of failing of any part of the process. With that in mind has anyone else had an experience wth this? Or will you believe that I am still lying and just failed the poly. I am not afraid to take the poly, I have passed them before and I have nothing to hide.

[seeking]

I had a whole reply all set and was apparently writing it at the same time....that changes things a bit, but would say it still doesn't seem like the whole story...what was the conversation, what about it lead you to think that? Their job is to interrogate you and make sure you're being honest...of course they're going to try different methods, not to 'get you to admit something you didn't do' but to make sure that you're being honest about the things you said you did and didn't do, and if it's the truth, it shouldn't be a problem keeping them straight.

Honestly, if you aren't sure if you passed the poly or not, why don't you just call up the department and ask them? They should be able to tell you if you failed it and give you an idea why you weren't selected if that didn't have anything to do with it. The USSS is very competitive, and it very well could be just that they applicants they chose to continue in the process, at this time, appear to be better suited to the position than you. Does that mean you'll never get in or aren't fit? Of course not. Qualified people get turned down from agencies (especially federal agencies) all the time. And if it wasn't for a major or automatic DQ reason I imagine you'd be welcome to apply again later.

[BigHoss]

I had a whole reply all set and was apparently writing it at the same time....that changes things a bit, but would say it still doesn't seem like the whole story...what was the conversation, what about it lead you to think that? Their job is to interrogate you and make sure you're being honest...of course they're going to try different methods, not to 'get you to admit something you didn't do' but to make sure that you're being honest about the things you said you did and didn't do, and if it's the truth, it shouldn't be a problem keeping them straight.

Honestly, if you aren't sure if you passed the poly or not, why don't you just call up the department and ask them? They should be able to tell you if you failed it and give you an idea why you weren't selected if that didn't have anything to do with it. The USSS is very competitive, and it very well could be just that they applicants they chose to continue in the process, at this time, appear to be better suited to the position than you. Does that mean you'll never get in or aren't fit? Of course not. Qualified people get turned down from agencies (especially federal agencies) all the time. And if it wasn't for a major or automatic DQ reason I imagine you'd be welcome to apply again later.

Seeking, dont know if you saw my post right before yours. hope that clears it up for you.

[Maverick24]

Ok, I have been through polys before (and this has been discussed in other threads before). MANY people get caught up/questioned closely on the drug use question. Probably because this is one of the most common questions that are lied about. I have never touched a drug before either, but I was raked through the coals on that question over and over. They probably do it with just about everyone. When I walked out I thought for sure that I must have failed, but I passed in the end. Many poly guys play that "mind game" with you from beginning to end. Hoss, because you were caught up on that question it DOES NOT mean that is reason. Possible, but it could be anything. The only way you can find out for sure is through the freedom of information act. Like I said before I wouldnt look too much into it, use it as a learning experience and move on.

From what I have seen from candidates I know, and on this board as well as others. The USSS commonly "Thin letters" many candidates after both the poly and the home interview. It is not a rare thing, and they never say exactly why.

[BigHoss]

Ok, I have been through polys before (and this has been discussed in other threads before). MANY people get caught up/questioned closely on the drug use question. Probably because this is one of the most common questions that are lied about. I have never touched a drug before either, but I was raked through the coals on that question over and over. They probably do it with just about everyone. When I walked out I thought for sure that I must have failed, but I passed in the end. Hoss, because you were caught up on that question it DOES NOT mean that is reason. Possible, but it could be anything. The only way you can find out for sure is through the freedom of information act. Like I said before I wouldnt look too much into it, use it as a learning experience and move on.

Mav, Thanks for the advice. I think I will end it there. I think we have had similar experiences.

If anyone feels like locking this thread so that the bickering can come to a stop I am fine with that one.

[seeking]

Seeking, dont know if you saw my post right before yours. hope that clears it up for you.

Yeah, that's my reply to your reply...I had a whole different one set about about if you were not disclosing, etc.

[BigHoss]

I had a whole reply all set and was apparently writing it at the same time....that changes things a bit, but would say it still doesn't seem like the whole story...what was the conversation, what about it lead you to think that? Their job is to interrogate you and make sure you're being honest...of course they're going to try different methods, not to 'get you to admit something you didn't do' but to make sure that you're being honest about the things you said you did and didn't do, and if it's the truth, it shouldn't be a problem keeping them straight.

Honestly, if you aren't sure if you passed the poly or not, why don't you just call up the department and ask them? They should be able to tell you if you failed it and give you an idea why you weren't selected if that didn't have anything to do with it. The USSS is very competitive, and it very well could be just that they applicants they chose to continue in the process, at this time, appear to be better suited to the position than you. Does that mean you'll never get in or aren't fit? Of course not. Qualified people get turned down from agencies (especially federal agencies) all the time. And if it wasn't for a major or automatic DQ reason I imagine you'd be welcome to apply again later.

Seeking, thanks for the new comment.
When I finished the poly I was questioned for an hour about something I was not telling him about my drug use. I tried to tell him the entire time that there was nothing I have ever done. I am not debating his opinion, if the machine told him I was lying I fully expect him to believe the machine over me. Heck, that is what they pay him for. I just cant imagine that I would fail the poly based on lying. If I was not selected for lack of qualifications or someone being better than I am, I am fine with that.

I have called the personnell department several times, and after searching posts on this site several people have had the same experience. they were not able or willing to tell me anything. I received a letter very similar to my original Not Selected letter, restating the fact that I was not selected. There was no mention about failing anything. So, I really want to reapply, I would be happy to take a hundred more polygraphs, and I will answer them all in the same way.

I come from a long family history of law enforcement and I am not stupid enough to lie about anything. I am planning on reapplying and harassing them until they either tell me never to come back or I get the job. thanks for the input

[rix031]

hoss, i dont think anyone was bickering. i replied to your post in a way that highlighted the fact that you mentioned the drug question was a different topic. now that you have cleared up what you were talking about, we all can discuss exactly what some of others have mentioned. the polygraph examiners are highly-trained, professional, skilled personnel(note: one L not two). if you have never used drugs, then the examiner was doing what he is trained to do. on my poly, he hammered me with national security issues because i had an active secret clearance. but, i knew i had never "sold" secrets to foreign nationals or anything else detrimental to national security so i passed. however, i still did not get hired by the secret service and to this day i do not know why. matter of fact, i made it through the process further as only a college graduate than a 10 year federal law enforcement officer & military veteran.

for what its worth, i have never met or heard of anyone that has been hired by the secret service after being rejected by them in the past. it seems like they are a "one and out" agency. hopefully, i am wrong in that belief.

also, you may be able to find out some information through the freedom of information act.